Legislative Assembly of Manitoba

THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC UTILITIES AND NATURAL RESOURCES

Tuesday, February 24, 1998

TIME -- 10 a.m.

LOCATION -- Winnipeg, Manitoba

CHAIRPERSON -- Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek)

VICE-CHAIRPERSON -- Mr. Denis Rocan (Gladstone)

ATTENDANCE - 11 -- QUORUM - 6

Members of the Committee present:

Hon. Messrs. Downey, Gilleshammer, Pitura, Mrs. Vodrey

Messrs. Dewar, Gaudry, McAlpine, Penner, Reid, Rocan, Sale

Substitutions:

Mr. Helwer for Hon. Mr. Downey

Hon. Mr. Newman for Hon. Mr. Pitura

Mr. Laurendeau for Mr. Penner

Mr. Dyck for Hon. Mr. Gilleshammer

Ms. Mihychuk for Mr. Reid

Mr. Sveinson for Hon. Mrs. Vodrey

APPEARING:

Mr. Robert Brennan, President and Chief Executive Officer, Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board

Mr. John McCallum, Chairman, Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board

MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION:

Annual Report of the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board, March 31, 1997

This is a 33 page document, on page 18 the CEO of Manitoba Hydro talks about Minnesota Power and you must remember that this is long before Mn. Power came to our county boards and said we needed the line for Northwest Wisconsin, our lights were going out.

Ms. Mihychuk: In terms of some of the implications of Bill 55, it was my understanding that would allow for more international agreements and other joint ventures, and we saw that in your presentation.

Recently, Manitoba Hydro announced its joint venture with Minneapolis or Minnesota Power utility. Are there further negotiations or other ventures that Manitoba Hydro is investigating?

Mr. Brennan: Yes, we would very, very much like to get into the eastern part of Wisconsin. There are transmission limitations right now for us to do that, and we are entered into alliance with Minnesota Power, which we are quite happy with. They are really good people to work with, and we are talking about a transmission line being built from Duluth right down into the southeastern part of Wisconsin, and part of that will be Manitoba Hydro, should the opportunity arise, supplying additional firm power down into that area. We are also talking to other utilities about opportunities to get into more expensive or more costly areas, if you will, where we would be able to sell power at higher rates. In most cases, that requires additional transmission, and that is why alliances are so important to us.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Next is a talk show in Winnipeg Canada CJOB Radio Larry Updike Show > Subj: Doer re Manitoba power to WI

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Note: Although Minnesota Power, one of the proponents, denied to the

Minnesota Environmental Quality Board that its proposed 250-mile 345 kV line

between Duluth, Minnesota and Wausau, Wisconsin, has any connection to

Manitoba Hydro, here is the relevant portion of a transcript of a Winnipeg

radio show, Wednesday, February 28, that demonstrates otherwise.

Subject: Breakfast with the Premier: Doer responds to claims that northern

communities must pay up Hydro bills.

Source: CJOB, 7:40 a.m. (Morning Show), Wednesday, February 28, 2001

Larry Updike, host: School day six, garbage day three, as we welcome the

premier of Manitoba, Gary Doer, to Breakfast with the Premier. Good morning.

Premier Gary Doer: Good morning.

Updike: Well, as you heard on the news with Barry Burns, Manitoba Hydro is

owed eight and a half million dollars for unpaid, bills, and CJOB News has

gathered news using the Access to Information Act. It turns out, seven and a

half million of that is owing from first nation communities. I'll give you

an example, 3.7-million owned by Cross Lake First Nation in a legal battle

with Hydro at the moment. And ten other aboriginal communities that owe a

$100,000 or more. Premier, there's a principle here -- that if it was me or

somebody else that owed the money, why are these communities allowed to let

their accounts slide?

Doer: Well, we're in a major legal and political fight with Cross Lake, and

this is part of it. Cross Lake has been opposing Manitoba's export of

electricity to Minnesota, and ultimately to a transmission line that we're

lobbying to build in Wisconsin. We have... We're negotiating a $800-million

deal to extend Manitoba power to Minnesota and Wisconsin. And we're in a

fight with them, and we've taken them to court and they've taken us to

court. It's the last community that has not settled under the Northern Flood

Agreement. All of the other communities have settled, and places that have

settled, like Nelson House, have been very, very positive, but there's no

question we will...We're taking action against Cross Lake. There was an

offer made by the previous government to settle this, and many other

outstanding claims that was rejected by the community that would have dealt

with this lack of payment, in terms of Hydro bills. But, if you get the

electricity, you have to pay the bills, and we're pursuing Cross Lake and

all the other communities. And you're right -- everybody should be treated

equally.

Updike: And do you look at now a policy on payment on the north? Does it

speak to you of a larger problem on reserves because it's an awfully big

percentage of the owed pie?

Doer: It is a big percentage of the owed pie for consumers, and we're

pursuing it, with the communities. There's also no question that some of the

... a lot of the houses that are built in those northern communities have

very flimsy conservation procedures and the bills are just terrific, in

terms of some of the costs in those communities, but the principle of "you

get the electricity, you pay the bills" is the same no matter where you

live. And, I mean, hydroelectric power is providing a great advantage for

Manitoba. As I mentioned to you off-air, there's an article today saying

that Alberta's costs for many industries are going as high as 29 cents per

kilowatt hour, compared to Manitoba's four cents per kilowatt hour. So, it's

providing great economic advantage for us. A lot of the development took

place in the north, and we're trying to make sure that there's some economic

development in those communities for the development that did take place in

giving us these advantages, but it should not be...No one should believe

that because a settlement is not arrived at, that they have an excuse not to

pay their bills.

interviewer then changes to another subject