WHO IS Sheikh ABU-HAMZA?
A Conversation with Sheikh Abu Hamza
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"I am in the protection of Allah. If I am in the protection of this government, I would listen to what they say, I would stop my speech. I will continue my teaching as long as it is Islamic."

This article was a "Special Report: Yemen" in Q-News, another magazine produced to ease the concerns of most non-Muslims that their lifestyles will not be tampered with. At first glance, you would think that the editor was actually understanding of the Islamic message put forth by Sheikh Abu Hamza, then he reveals the true character within. It is always a shame when Muslims who know right from wrong grow up, become educated, then rush to join the crowd. The title of this article was "Part of the Madding Crowd."

Sheikh Abu Hamza was an engineer who went to make jihad, and was placed in charge of rebuilding roads, highways and the infrastructure in Jalalabad.

Just another one of the many projects that Sheikh Abu Hamza directed the early days of IEA.

Thanks to the many schools built to preserve the ways of non-Muslim troublemakers in the world, we now have Muslims who have joined in the trouble-making. Indeed this article which is being republished is important, yet a product of the madding crowd -- those who actually rushed to conduct an interview to partake in their "fifteen minutes" of fame during the Yemen 'conspiracy' against Muslims calling for change. And it is well known that everyone wants to know what you are all about once the troublemakers have made you famous.

This article will begin with the questions, statements and answers and leave off the commentary, which was indicitive of the editors accomplishments in higher education. The real defenders of Islam are interested only in Islamic education, so we will stick to that and leave all else alone. Let us begin...

Tell us a little about your background.

Sheikh Abu Hamza and his staff while working in the Jalalabad, Islamic Emirate Afghanistan.

Sheikh Abu Hamza, oversees a crew that works to rebuild the Islamic Emirate in early days.

Some have criticized you for being a self-taught man who has no sheikh, and nobody has given you ijaza.

The people who have been given ijaza give us nothing but headache. The university certificates are not called ijaza, they are a king or a president's approval for you to teach, and this approval is more political than religious. Every year, we have more than two or three thousand new scholars and hundreds of new glossy books. But at the same time, we see more usury banks, more abuses of Islam, more oppression and exploitation, more domination of our countries by non-Muslims. The question is: what's the use of all this 'Islamic' knowledge if it's not doing anything positive to Muslim people and Islam? What are these people really and teaching?

According to a hadith (saying) of the Prophet (saw) the best believing people are those who learn the religion from papers [sic]. It is a correct Hadith. When scholars are corrupt, Allah the Exalted, replaces them with Cd-Roms, computers and pieces of paper. If scholars are corrupt and hinder the way of God and put themselves before God, then they are not worthy.

Who are the Supporters of Shari'ah?

Supporters of Shari'ah (SoS) was formed in 1994, following a mashura (constitution) between some brothers, who have been involved in jihad in Bosnia, Afghanistan, and to give the message to the average Muslims - message which is being hindered by non-Muslims and also by Muslims who like to give the point of view of Islam which does not oppose the enemies of Islam. We are established to defend the Shari'ah, the Islamic law, and also to defend the people who are defending Islamic law. Some of these people are already killed and others are in prison. We have correspondences in the lands of jihad, here and there, and we welcome jihad of Islamic groups who are interested in defending Islamic law. We also give people advice to go for training to help fellow Muslims, and not to be deceived by the Western European society.

How many members does SoS have?

We don't keep track or records of members, both for their own security and because we are not a fundraising organization. We are only interested in saying the truth and supporting the cause of Allah. We have plenty of sympathisers rather than members, and they are thousands in this country and abroad, as well. We ask those who are very sympathetic to us to leave this country and try to make the future in an Islamic environment and save themselves and their children, and help their fellow Muslims. So basically, the more Muslims we have, the less Muslims we have.

Not to melt in this society, To take from this society what is good for them an leave it when it is dangerous. Not to plan their future life and death in this country. Treat this country for what it is: a vampire land which is thoroughly anti-Islam and Muslims. We need to give them an invitation to Islam and this does not mean that just because we are in their land, we do not enjoin what is good and right and forbid what is evil and wrong. We have to tell these people that they need Islam. When it comes to civilisation, lights, electronics, yes they are ahead of us and we do not want to deny that.

I am not anti-Western. I respect knowledge, but they are paying too much price for what they call knowledge and civilisation. So they have to be told about the truth of Islam. They need to have a proper window where they can ask about true Islam and where nobody hides Islamic principles from them. Sometimes, Islam teaches people to defend themselves, to use the sword.

So are you asking the better Muslims to go to the Muslim world?

I tell them to go to a Muslim environment, not a Muslim country, because in our countries we have Muslims, but we do not have Islamic states (up until now, which is Afghanistan). We say to go to the villages of Pakistan and wherever religion is still conserved, the honor of our family is preserved. And they should have some say in those countries to enjoin the good and forbid the evil.

Is that not a bit patronising? Here you are in Shepard's Bush, what makes you think you are good for somebody in a village of Pakistan? All you have which they don't is the protection and security of the West.

It is very immature to think about a certain person and ignore the principle. I immigrated from this country in 1990, but I was injured in 1993, so I had to come back for political, as well as medical reasons. There was a conspiracy to hand me over to be executed in Egypt. This is not the case of the 17 million Muslim people in Europe and 10 million Muslim people in America. They either stay there and struggle to expose the regimes for what they are to help the people back home, or they go back and they start having an Islamic environment rather than having a lesbian Muslim girls and gay Muslim boys, bad society and disrespect. If they are capable of carrying a struggle to expose the the tyrannical regimes for what they are and they are going to be executed and have no choice, then stay in this bad environment, but at least raise your voice and do what the inside people cannot do.

No. Individual strength which destructs the nation's strength is not strength, it is conspiracy. If you are living in the West, you have to keep your Islam, and Islam does not say that if you see your brothers and sisters being bombarded by the people that give you food and drink, you have to be loyal to them more than Islam. That loyalty in Islam is called conspiracy. These Muslims living in these countries are earning, eating, smiling, and not doing anything for the brothers who are being killed by this society which is harboring them.

Islam gives you a responsibility not to live among the mushriks (idolators). A hadith narrated by Imam Tabarani, says: "I have distanced myself from anyone who lives among the pagans and the mushriks." So for Muslims to live among the pagans, they have to show they are doing this because they have no other choice, they are keeping their loyalty to Islam, otherwise they are going head on against the principles of the Prophet (saw) and the verses of the Qu'ran. It won't help us that we live nice and dry here in Britain (or in America) today, when we meet Allah, the Exalted, the Hereafter.

Is the loyalty you are referring to a loyalty to a land, to a state, to an individual like yourself?

The Prophet (saw) said religion is about loyalty. Loyalty to Allah, the Prophet (saw), the leaders of the Muslims, and to the Muslim force. Loyalty to Allah means you obey his verses. There are no Muslim leaders who deserve loyalty (except Amir ul-Mumineen of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and the leaders of Jihad in Chechyna, Nigeria, Algeria, Philippines, Kashmir, etc.), but your loyalty should be to the Muslim people. That means if you see Muslims who are dying because of sanctions imposed by pagans upon them, or because of policies which the kafirs who harbour you have issued, then your loyalty to Muslims means you try to do something about it. Even if you lose your life delaying the process of killing some Muslims even by five Muslims that is not a loss. That is the definition of loyalty in Islam.

You give the impression that Muslims in Britain live a nice comfortable life, but statistics show that over 80 percent are living below the poverty line, in an Islamophobic society, and so they have many of their own problems to deal with.

This is hypocrisy, because the poverty line in Britain is the rich line in our own countries. You measure yourself to be poor compared to Lord John and Marks and Spencer, and the most rich people, but Muslims in our countries don't have one fraction of the privileges of freedom of speech or freedom of wearing or freedom of neighborhood that you have. To keep hunting for the rest of the dunya or the earthly world and leaving your brothers struggling to have the basic needs is nothing but hypocrisy. You should measure yourself with the standard of the Muslim people in India, Egypt, Pakistan, and then you'll see yourself a tyrant.

From the Islamic point of view if we don't care about our brothers we are criminals in the sight of God, and we are not a good example for anyone to come to Islam. These people don't respect us if they see us selling our religion for a degree, or a house or even for a mosque.

Some people might say you are a coward for sitting safely in London and giving orders. Shouldn't you be on the battlefield?

How do you think I've lost my hands and my eyes? Did I lose them in the lottery? Ask the Muslims in Afghanistan. When the light goes off, Muslims are running to the mummy's, they can't even walk in a dark alley in England.

Of course, we should be prepared to defend the truth. We are not fighting from the Genghis Khan idea that we just want to be fighters. If it is necessary we fight but if there is no land or no avenues to fight then the truth must prevail, and we must say the truth. This is in the Qur'an. Before the Prophet emigrated to Medina he wanted to know if these people were men or just chickens or pussy cats. He said before I emigrate to your land you must promise me to say the truth. I hear people talking harsh about the West from Afghanistan and when they come to to England they are pussy cats. You must talk about Islam in Afghanistan as you talk about in Makkah, in England.

Because it is not a message for me and you, it is a message for the entire world. Everybody has a right to know what Islam is all about and I think Muslims have sold Islam very cheaply.

How would you feel if the five British Muslims in Yemen were found guilty and executed?

Found guilty by whom? If they were found guilty by an Islamic regime, breaking the Islamic Shari'ah, then that would be very shameful. But if they are found guilty according to a tyrannical regime, then they have everything to be proud of if they are the soldiers of God.

Where do you think the soldiers of God are going to stay? Here in the Hilton or Piccadilly Circus?

They must be on the battlefield for the Islamic cause and be hated by the people who like earthly matters. If they have gone for the cause of Allah then nobody should be upset for them.

The Western media suggests you sent them there. Is that true?

I don't send particular people. I know only how to send myself. I talk openly about the principle. Our organisation is monitored and censored by all these people, and so even if we want to do something, we don't have the ability, because it would be dangerous for people to take instructions from us.

I give a message. I say to Muslims get out of these societies, they are toxic for you, they will damage your religion. Go and support the cause of Muslims with regards to Jihad.

What is your expectation from the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office with regards to the boys arrested in Yemen? Do you think the FCO has a moral responsibility to protect them?

According to them they already have and I don't like to raise the racist card as soon as a non-white person has a problem, even though my son would benefit from this immediate slogan.

But it is not fair or Islamic to raise the racist card. I think Islamically as Muslims we should help them and not keep asking the non Muslims to help them, because they are British. If we are a twisted stick, let us not look for a straight shadow, because the reality is that if we are a twisted stick our shadow will be as twisted as we are. If we are not helping our brothers who will help them?

Until now, I have not asked for my son's protection or any help from the other side because it is degrading. We have a struggle with our own people and then we ask the supporters of this regime to protect our sons?

I am in the protection of Allah. If I am in the protection of this government, I would listen to what they say, I would stop my speech. I will continue my teaching as long as it is Islamic. This is not arrogance, it is just the truth. Just because I am in the house of the Pharaoh does not mean I have to be quiet about the Pharaoh. If I am being looked after by the Pharaoh, I have to be the Moses in the house of the Pharaoh. This is what Islam has taught us.

Would you be disappointed in the British government if they sent you to be put on trial in Yemen?

I have been disappointed in the British government since their first crusade against Islam, before I was born. Why should I be disappointed about personal matters more than about the general ummah matters? What is a greater loss for Islam - one person or the loss of a principle.

If you are telling all Muslims to go and fight abroad, then why are you not taking the lead?

I have done my bit. I have taken the lead. I migrated to Pakistan with my family and when I was injured they stole my house, then threw hand grenades in my house to execute me. They arrested three people with me and I managed to escape. When I cam here the order for extradition had been asked in Egypt, Algeria and many countries. So I have done my bit. I didn't come here and sit under the carpet. I sacrificed my job as an engineer. I have taken a job which has put me right in the focus or every enemy of Islam and I am still taking about it until now. I am not Jesus Christ, I am not your example. I am telling people of their obligation in Islam.

So Muslims should go to fight, blow off a few limbs and then come back to to Britain, like yourself?

This is what the Sahaaba have done. I am telling you about the religion of the Sahaaba, the religion of the Messenger of Allah (SAW). If the Sahaaba had gone to work with the Romans and their toilets like Muslims are doing here, they you would have never been a Muslim. The Sahaaba have taken the initiative, they took the sword, they gave the message.

How would we be Muslims if the Sahaaba had taken a work permit with the Persian empire and all other empires. We have to ask ourselves that question and not continue the mistakes of our grandparents.

They have be stopped. I am not interested in the majority of Muslims to follow me, I am interested in the sincere Muslims, who enjoin good and forbid evil wherever we are.

In very difficult circumstances only, which does not apply to 95 percent of the Muslims in any Western country. Why should we migrate to the West? Why should we go back and struggle with our own countries? If people have a genuine reason similar to mine that is different. Everyone has their own reason between him and Allah.

I don't search people's houses and ask them what they are doing here. I am giving a general message for anybody who wants to have reckoning for himself before the Day of Judgment. If he has a justified reason to stay here it is between him and Allah.

What about the scholars who say it makes no difference whether you live in the West or not because there is no real Darul-Islam anywhere.

(At the time of this interview February 1999, it was not clear that Islamic Emirate was in fact Darul-Islam.) Our immediate duties are to regain our countries and make them Darul-Islam. Before we fight the West, we have to fight our origins to make our countries Islamic regimes. When we tell people to go back to our countries, people make mockery out of us, because they say our countries are more corrupt. Yes this is true, but our countries have many Muslims and an Islamic atmosphere. It is our duty to change them from Darul-Kufr to Darul-Islam.

So there is no way we can be both British and Muslim?

If you say you are British in the sense that you are giving your address, there is no problem. But if you say you are British and a Muslim in the sense that you cancel verses in the Qu'ran, because you are British that has no respect in Islam. Every Muslim who voted in this country has the blood of the Iraqi people on their hands, because they recommended the government who has killed the Muslims. Voting might give us benefits, but why should we have benefits at the expense of others?

In Islam, in any fair religion, you cannot push your misfortune to other people.

Do you feel any responsibility for contribution to the Western media stereotype of Muslims as terrorists and religious fanatics? People across the country are now thinking that Mosques are sites of military training and terroristic activity rather than the houses of Allah. How good can that be for inviting non-Muslims to Islam?

It is because you are defeated inside that you think this is true. Have you ever seen non-Muslims queuing to come to Islam and we turn them down because we are fully booked? Instead, we have seen Muslims queuing to go out of Islam by being lesbian and gay and using interest-based mortgages.

If you cannot keep your Islamic identity why are you thinking about one John or Shirley who comes to Islam every blue moon, and doesn't last long anyway. You shouldn't be interested in that, you should be interested in keeping your own identity in your own society and keeping Muslims as Muslim. You should give people the right idea about Islam, so when they come into it they see it as it is and don't say this is not the Islam I've been told about and they leave Islam in the middle. They have to know that Islam is about from A to Z.

This whole episode has come at a time when a section of the British Muslim community are quite happy with their acceptance into British society. They believe that finally some doors have been opened for them in the corridors of power. What advice would you give to these people?

Islam says to be a tail in the truth is better than to be a head in the falsehood. Let them be tail in the truth and follow Sahaaba. They might be a head, but a head in a tyrannical government. Let us be happy to be in the safe group, who are the followers of the Messenger of Allah (SAW). Let us be poor and clean. Let us have difficulties in this time and peace in the next time.