I argue with people a lot. I’d like to think I’m good at it (living in my house you get good at things like that… sometimes too good) but I know I’m not the best. Politicians are the best, I must say. Though they lie a lot.
In any case, I bring you to this conversation that I had on the AIM recently. Decided it would be a good thing to show everyone how a successful argument goes. There’s a lot of baiting and dodging (which I’ll point out along the way) as well. I’m doing this because, as you’ll see at the end of the speech, I was the one accused of not making any sense. You’ll see how ludicrous that was once I’m done.
Note: This is long and if your not up to it, I say go back to the home page and wait for another rant to be posted. This ones gonna be long. Hope it explains the lack of posts in recent days.
And yes, I know I spelt a LOT of things wrong. I type fast on AIM. Message me sometimes and you’ll see what I mean. This is especially true when I’m arguing online.
The person’s AIM name was changed and to stop people from guessing (except for the obvious things) I’ll refer to the subject as “it”.
evil can of joy: pouser? don't you listen to avril?
Subject L auto responce: food. and watching that fucking poser frankie on mtv
Subject L: avril isnt a poser
1Ok, make note that this is a “premise” for the “argument.” Keep in mind that the premise is a point made to support the argument, or conclusion. You need to remember this for later on in the conversation.
evil can of joy: she's a punk britney spears.... only not as popular
2Another point.
Subject L: haha. that coming from someone who doesn't watch mtv. and i bet half the bands you listen to didnt start out in that genre they're in now
3I guess you could call that a rebuttal, but it doesn’t really answer my points (1 and 2). That the second part is sort of a dodge. We’ll explain dodges later.
Also note that this rant will get funnier. Subject L: and you havent even heard the whole album not that its rock and the second cd
4That’s a point. And remember, points don’t nessesarily HAVE TO BE TRUE. They just have to support your argument, but it helps a lot. And usually you need more than three words to prove a point. I don’t see any proof. My proof was stated in evil can of joy: plus, now you have the clones trying to be here, like ashley simpson
5This comes from a rant I wrote a while ago where I said one of the things (amoung many) good about new Jersey was Bam Margera. I left it there, but I told her I was wrong. Remember THAT too. It seems when someone is arguing with you that it’s ok to forget little details that would get in the way of something you said without thinking.
evil can of joy: haha, bam at least rules
6Note the dodge that happened. When L said, “and where's bam margera from again?” that is known as a dodge. When someone is cornered and can’t offer any more resistance to your points, they dodge and change the subject, usually subtly. L obviously doesn’t understand the concept of “subtle” yet. The ignorance of her arguing will get even worse.
evil can of joy: and he doesn't need a pretend punk career to be cool
7But does the sentence, “but yet he lives off him” make any sense? Without seeing what L meant, it doesn’t. It’s not even a real sentence. This discrepancy will be talked about soon. In any case, living off a band bad? That’s not even what were arguing about. I don’t like Avril cause she lives off a scene as a poseur. Bam isn’t a poseur… hell, he’s just Bam.
evil can of joy: he lives off him, is not a sentace
8Another dodge. And what has my state of origin have to do with this? If L means that since I’m from NJ I don’t properly know how to identify stupid comments and badly formed sentences, I guess she has a REAL point.
Subject L: talk more with others
9Now the sentence makes sense.
Subject L: yesssss
10 You willing to bet on that? From L’s point of view it did. But I don’t have the add-on for AIM that lets me see into someone’s mind to grasp some poorly typed meaning.
evil can of joy: in any case, he had sponsors, business degrees and skate clothes before he had any involvement in HIM
11So I say that Bam was known because he was a professional skateboarder (point) to which the argument against it isn’t actually an argument, but a statement: “he got famous off em”. Does anyone start to see the point I’m making about argueing yet? If you don’t, take your fat, dumb ass to jerk off to gay porn in your parents’ basement.
evil can of joy: i bet no one knew who he was when he was a PROFESSIONAL SKATEBOARDER or on JACKASS
12So, instead of JUST dodging, L decides to IGNORE the professional Skateboarding thing and cite CKY (again spelled without caps, though at least CKY can’t be mistaken for bad grammar) as a reason I’m wrong.
evil can of joy: so, and professional skating came before CKY
13But we were talking about when Bam was “famous” not “big”. The two are different. Bam was VERY famous in the skating scene. Of coarse, L wouldn’t know that because nothing matters that isn’t related to the things L likes. I’m sure you can go back to the days before everyone liked CKY (whish Bam isn’t even IN… his brother is) and find Bam mentioned, if not with articles writen just about him, in skateboard magazines.
evil can of joy: ok, L, you keep thinking that and avril not being a posuer
14See, ignoring things again. Though I don’t have other AIM chats when I told L I was wrong, so I don’t have actual proof. I wish I did, then I could prove L wrong on a LOT more things L says and not just the things L contradicts itself saying.
And “likewise”? How is it “likewise” when I said Avril WAS a poseur? evil can of joy: i told you i was wrong about that
15I don’t get the reasoning here? I’m reading it over and over, but there doesn’t seem that there’s any thought put into this. As if someone just set the brain on auto-pilot and crashed into a mound of bullshit… wait. Does “pushing buttons” constitute being a legitimate “punk”?
evil can of joy:so? how does that make her legit? goerge bush does that
16Note: I don’t think Bush is dumb, but I don’t think he’s the brightest bulb to walk the earth. Hell, if he graduated from Yale with an average score (regardless of the fact he got in because Dad went there) that’s one hell of a feat. C’mon, it’s a fuckin’ IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL!
evil can of joy:i bet he knows avril is a posuer
17Lets list some bands I listen to: Incubus, Tenacious D, Green Day, Catch 22, Knucklesandwich, Rammstein, Reel Big Fish, Atom and His Package, The Bouncing Souls, The Unseen, NOFX, Anti-Flag, Sixer, Rancid, The (International) Noice Conspiracy, Pennywise, Dropkick Murphs, Death By Stereo, All, Dwarves, Refused, Agnostic Front, Voodoo Glow Skulls, Descendents, Down By Law, T.S.O.L, SNFU, Atreyu, Snapecase, Strife, Darkest Hour, Blood for Blood, Waterdown, Reach the Sky, River City Rebels, Vision Quest, Dead to Fall, US Bombs, Lars Fredriksen and the Bastards, Roger Miret and the Disasters, Left Over Crack, Tiger Army, King Django, the Pietasters, the Gadjits, Tilt, Mad Caddies, Sick of It All, Consumed, Me First and the Gimme Gimme's, Rage Againts the Machine, Suicide Machines, Beastie Boys, Mustard Plug, Primus, the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Agent Orange, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, Black Flag, H2O, Streetlight Manifesto, Stretch Arm Strong, Queens of the Stoneage, Foo Fighters, Mouthwash, the Necromantix, Flogging Molly, F-Minus, Hot Water Music, Sham 69, Dire Straights, Virus, the Casualties, the Devotchkas, Lower Class Brats…
How many are poseurs…. Maybe Green Day and NOFX are the only ones that can be stretched. Green Day is on the brink, since I have to hear the new album coming out to be certain and NOFX became poseurs as soon as they opened PunkVoter for business. Punks vote? Bullshit, that’s not punk. Now breaking voting booths is punk. In either case, they are a stretch.
And no one ever said school bands were bad. Some of the best indie bands in my town were in the school band. And I listen to ska. Lots of ska horn players (actual musicians who can do more than bang on instruments) where in the school marching AND normal band. To the choir thing, maybe some guys in the Dropkick Murphys were, since they are really Catholic.
Of coarse, L’s still probably wrong that “half” of them were probably in choir or the school band. L’s contradicting itself by doing the same thing with “facts” (I call them points) that it alleges I do. Good work there with THINKING again.
evil can of joy:first of all, I'm not gonna amazingly have “sence" from a person who can't even write a proper sentance... second, avril is a posuer, and just getting people "mad" isn't a sign she isn't
Subject L auto responce: idiots
Subject L: that coming from someone who lacks facts for anything he talks about
18In opposed to your “facts”?
evil can of joy:she dresses like a punk so that she can apeal to posuers that watch mtv
19Point!
Subject L: this school is becoming more and more closeminded by the day
20Note that the “damn” didn’t mean that L knew it was defeated, but that it thought it had me on the MTV thing. I also didn’t ever say I “never” watched MTV, but that I DON’T watch MTV. I used to, but then wised up once I saw too much MTV News back in 7th grade. Every year, though, I watch the VMAs as a litmus test, (that means “severity test” for people like L that don’t get words with more than one meaning). This year was successful because I didn’t know any of the new hip songs all the fag-rappers were rapping on stage. It also affirms the reason I don’t watch MTV: because it’s canned bullshit.
Subject L: still.
21Hmmm…. The only fact L’s actually pulled out so far. Still, my argument goes down to (1) Avril is a punk Britney Spears because now the clones have come out to copy her, (2) she dresses punk because the label wants it, (3) wear’s massive amounts of make-up not to be “punk” but to cover up the fact she actually isn’t that attractive and (4) she’s on a Major Label (not a stand alone poseur fact, but one that usually comes with the poseur territory. The Make-up thing wasn’t what I said to L, but have you SEEN Avril without make-up? She’s about a 4 on my scale then.
I and most people I know have never sung in a choir. I’d take a poll, but it’s 1:02 AM right now. Most protestant churches don’t allow “young people” singing in them (for the most part) and most young people that are Catholic tend to shy away from the choir and stuff unless forced. Besides the fact that Avril’s “choir experience” wasn’t what I was referring to originally, but her days when record exec scouts wanted her to be a country singer. Something her and her label don’t want many to know for fear that the masses would think she’s a poseur. Oddly enough, most of them are poseurs as well. How ironic! Subject L: and has gone onto every genre out there
22Here is were L realizes (overtly or covertly) that it’s not winning. This is what happens when someone argues out of passion instead of logic. They inevitably have to rationalize the reason the person they are talking to is wrong. Most the time (especially in the PA/NJ area) the people from one state just say, “Oh, the people in blah-blah don’t know what they are talking about.” That’s a phenomenon known as “group think”. It’s something some people naturally do without even knowing it. If they knew, they wouldn’t do it (well, intelligent ones wouldn’t).
evil can of joy:i think you need to realize the world isn't like philly
23Point.
Subject L: like row homes
24Another good point! If L’s talking to people on it’s street in philly (and to a lesser extent the people at KU, most of whom are from two states…) then how is that more than me? I talk to the people in my town (I hate my town, but I’m not a hermit) and I’ve talked to the people in KU. So, that means L’s conversations with people were more deep into their backgrounds. Guess, L’s right, I only talk about the weather and video games. I never talk about “backgrounds,” which any normally socialized person can figure out through normal non-background conversations. Saying “I bet” is a sure sign that L’s not sure!
Subject L: no i dont.
25Another dodge! I called L on it and it dodged. See the pattern! It’s the whole, “If it applies to me, it’s ok, but if it applies to you it’s wrong.” Michael Moore uses this kind of arguing to dupe people. Anyone who can see through it knows it’s bullshit.
evil can of joy:your the one making the opinions into facts now
See point numbers: 3, 7, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 22, and 24
evil can of joy:oh, and your not like "philly philly philly"
26Ah, the old “I know you are but what am I argument.” I never thought I’d hear this one from anyone above the age of six. We’re in college here, people. Can’t we figure something out a little more interesting? No? Damn.
evil can of joy:see? that retort makes no sense!
27Of coarse! Don’t mind the fact it was an idiotic statement! I don’t get “out enough” to understand it!
evil can of joy:you can't argue with someone like that!
26If by “people” you mean retarded, inbred patients with epilepsy, then yes, I guess I need to talk to more people.
Subject L: the history channel doesnt count.
27Says a lot for the Philedelphia school system.
Subject L: unless i keep it simple that is
28No, not tongues. It’s speaking in stupid.
evil can of joy:please find out what an "actual sentance" is.... that's not a sentace
29It’s a small wonder why people scream about education, cause this is what it’s getting society. Has L ever read books or watched anything more intellectually stimulating than professional wrestling? Who knows. Maybe she should watch some more History Channel.
evil can of joy:go back and look that the whole "HIM" thing, had you just typed "HIM" instead of "him" then we wouldn't have to have had the next 7 lines or so
30This “everyone else” makes me glad I didn’t grow up with them around. I might be suffocating in a puddle of my own drool otherwise.
evil can of joy:how can you say it's for everyone else?
31Well, “technically” the name “Bam” wasn’t in the sentence. But lets not let silly facts get in the way of logical arguments!
Subject L: you caught on. so dont worry about it
32Note to Webster’s Dictionary: The personal pronoun “him” no longer can be counted as a personal pronoun. Now him means the band, not the traditional use of the word.
evil can of joy:see, capitol letters make the difference
33Yes! Numbers 3, 7, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 22, and 24 never happened! See, unless it’s part of the immediate conversation subject with L, it doesn’t even exist!
evil can of joy:and you've been doing what for the past 15 minutes?
34HAHAHAHAHAH!
Subject L: you're sad
33And I haven’t!
Subject L: when are you going to write something where facts arent really opinions?
34Actually, in retrospect, my arguments weren’t fool proof, but they at least carry more weight than someone who really has said nothing in response.
Subject L: you're website for one
35Isn’t that the reason for arguing? You don’t argue with people who agree with you.
Subject L: you dont listen to what alot of others say
36Didn’t L just say that, “you don’t listen to what a lot of others say”? And now L just said that, “I just ignore most idiots…” Uhm… if L can ADMIT that it does it, how can L berade me for doing the same? NIMBY.
evil can of joy:that's what i do
37Oh, now L meant it another way. How conveinient.
Subject L: or they need help with a problem. im good at keeping secrets
38Or, in this case, when they don’t say that at all, that’s what they mean 99% of the time.
Subject L: not meaning they listen to every single word a person says
39In person you read things naturally (if you’re a properly socialized human being) from body language, voice tone, and many other things, a lot of which people probably don’t even know about yet. It would be A LOT different in person.
evil can of joy:didn't you take speech class? they talk about this whole thing there
40Yeah, right. L just doesn’t listen.
Subject L: you're just really confused. it seems like everything will/has to be spelled out for you.
41What!? “everything will/has to be spelled out for you”? With a sentence like that, no wonder “everything has to be spelled out” for me. I don’t speak stupid, remember?
evil can of joy:well, it didn't have to be until you started questioning me on the things that you yourself were doing
42Obsessed with what L never says.
evil can of joy:i'll give you one more reply before i cut it off to work on
This is how people argue when they don’t have any pertinent facts to back up an argument. I let myself be baited into changing the subject, and the whole discussion devolved into a round of dodging and baiting.
So, how do you handle someone who argues like this? Stick to the topic, no matter what. If they bait you like L did, just ignore it and answer it with another question, one that’s on topic. If you want to be really bold about it, say something like, “That’s a dodge, you just can’t argue that Avril isn’t a poseur and need to change the subject!” People who try to dodge don’t usually see this one coming, they always plan on you taking the bait and letting them dodge (usually because it’s something derogatory about you and most people respond to baits like that).
Well, I hope we all learned something today. You learned that no matter WHAT never take the bait and dodge with your opponent (in duels or arguments). I learned that you can’t argue with someone who doesn’t take responsibility to not contradict themselves with judging you. Stupid people do that, so try to not stay stupid.
Author: =][= Morok
Email: evilcanofjoy@kidsloveguns.com
evil can of joy: oh yeah, your right. how could i ever have thought that?
Subject L: i know. dont know why you bothered
evil can of joy: but she is, even though she isn't
Subject L: and how would you know?
evil can of joy: uhm.... she's on MTV, used tobe a country singer before the big five records advised her to change the image, and she had loosely on single "punk" song (and not a good one) on her first album
evil can of joy: that's not the point, they weren't created for MTV like avril and britney
Subject L: avril wasnt either
evil can of joy: suuuuuure
evil can of joy: neither was linkin park
Subject L: and
Subject L: and where's bam margera from again?
evil can of joy: the pits of hell
Subject L: thaks for being honest in not knowing
Subject L: finally
Subject L: not.
Subject L: he got old real fast
Subject L: yea. but yet he lives off him. sad
evil can of joy: "but yet he lives off him"?
evil can of joy: that sentance makes no sence
Subject L: he does
evil can of joy: it makes no sence
evil can of joy: i live off me? you live off you?
Subject L: yes. it is. please come out of nj more often
evil can of joy: do you mean the band HIM?
evil can of joy: you need to capitalize
Subject L: it still made sense
evil can of joy: who suck and no one likes anyway
Subject L: he got famous off em
evil can of joy: suuuuure
Subject L: right.
Subject L: i mean of course you wouldnt know
Subject L: its on teh videos
Subject L: hahahahaha. cky came before jackass
Subject L: so
evil can of joy: so, i win
Subject L: he didnt get big until cky
Subject L: thats when we all had to suffer with jackass
Subject L: likewise.
Subject L: keep thinking bams from nj. which i still find funny
Subject L: no you didnt lol
evil can of joy: right
Subject L: mmhmm
evil can of joy: avril is still a posuer
evil can of joy: just liek good charolette
evil can of joy: *like
Subject L: yes. and you can relaly prove that. thank god she knows how to properly push buttons
Subject L: cuz she def succeeded
evil can of joy:at beaing a posuer?
evil can of joy:being
Subject L: no shes got people like you pissed off
Subject L: by what she says and does
evil can of joy:george
Subject L: by what? pressing peoples buttons?
evil can of joy:yeah
Subject L: he's just flat out dumb
Subject L: i dont think he does it on purpose
evil can of joy:riiiiight, dumb AND from Yale
Subject L: mmhmm
evil can of joy:hahahaha
Subject L: right.
Subject L: just like half the bands you like. you cant prove their legit. i bet half of them were in school bands and christian choirs. no diff.
Subject L: please have sense
Subject L: theres no rule saying how she can dress
Subject L: you need to be openminded
evil can of joy:hahahaha, then by that logic there is no such thing as a posuer
evil can of joy:close minded? that's what i was when I watched MTV
Subject L: hah. you said you never watched it
evil can of joy:by "when" i mean years ago
Subject L: damn
evil can of joy:like middle school
evil can of joy:do you really think your making a good arguement?
Subject L: yes. because i'm not going on opinion thinking they're actual facts. just because someone who sings in a choir goes to pop/rock/punk doesnt make them a "poser" practically everyone on this planet has sung in a choir
evil can of joy:sure, L
Subject L: you need to be in more diverse groups to see how the world works
Subject L: i didnt say it was. but i actually talk to the people on my streets and around me to see what their backgrounds are like
Subject L: stop thinking the world is like nj. people actually talk to each other
evil can of joy:oh really, and all us country folk just don't?
Subject L: by the way you act
Subject L: do you even have close neighbors?
evil can of joy:your acting exactly the same as i am
Subject L: hahaha oh god no
Subject L: please dont ever say that
evil can of joy:yeah, cause homes have to be on top of others to be able to talk to people, right?
Subject L: yea. i bet you dont really chat with others enough to know
evil can of joy: even if that were true, your still talking to people in your area, how is that a diverse dispersal of ideas?
Subject L: i know people from outside of philly and pa
evil can of joy:like i never talked to anyone outside my town before i came here
Subject L: yea. you have. but you are always like "youre wrong. nj nj nj"
Subject L: no i havent. haha.
Subject L: not 24/7
evil can of joy:sure
Subject L: hahah. yes.
Subject L::-D
evil can of joy:this is like argueing to a brick wall
evil can of joy:only the wall makes more sense
Subject L: thank you for pointing that out.
Subject L: im glad that you can view yourself as such
Subject L: because you dont get out enough
evil can of joy:no, beacause i'm not an ignoramous
Subject L: if you actually talked with alot of people, it makes perfect sense.
evil can of joy:your assuming that i neer talked with a lot of people and stating it as a fact, which it is not
evil can of joy: that's what you were just accusing me of
evil can of joy:don't you see that? geez
Subject L: then dont act so dumb.
Subject L: its that simple
Subject L: but i guess we all have our off days
evil can of joy:GAH! see, your not even responding to my sentace
evil can of joy:your dodging!
Subject L: no im not
evil can of joy:yes you are
Subject L: talking to anyone else would understand and you're the only one who cant comprehend shit.
Subject L: returned at 1:26:11 PM.
evil can of joy:well, maybe if you wrote in actual sentances and made actual arguements instead of changing the subject everytime i make a point then maybe i'd get what your saying
Subject L: please find out what an "actual sentance" is. its not like im speaking in tongue.
Subject L: anyone else would understand it perfectly
Subject L: points as in opinions?
evil can of joy:see, another dodge!
Subject L: hahahahahhahahah
Subject L: that is a sentance.
evil can of joy:well, it's a bad one
evil can of joy:i like cheese it good, is a sentace to, but it's a bad one
Subject L: right. and you're grammer is 100% perfect.
Subject L: yawn
evil can of joy:no, but at least you understand most of what i'm typing
Subject L: and you cant understand mine? awwww.
Subject L: maybe if i typed in retard you'd understand?
Subject L: its the same fucking thing.
evil can of joy:to you, it sounded confusing to me
evil can of joy:look at this whole thing:
Subject L: its the same to me and everyone else. but thats ok. you're catching on.
Subject L: because everyone else i've talked to understood what i said
evil can of joy:you can't prove that
Subject L: it can
Subject L: because i've always typed him like that and everyone has understood what was meant
Subject L: and anytime you have bam and him in the same sentence, you know
evil can of joy:you don't get it
Subject L: you're the one dwelling on the fact you didnt know what him was
evil can of joy:i knew what HIM was, but HIM and him are totally different words
evil can of joy:HIM=Band... him=personal pronoun
Subject L: no they're not.
Subject L: so. you can write HIM as a personal pronoun too.
Subject L: it doesnt at all
Subject L: you just have to think when you read.
evil can of joy:you have no logic to your arguement
evil can of joy:yes, HIM can be the other, but it's the sentance that carries the true meaning
evil can of joy:I HATE HIM!
Subject L: thats because it makes sense. you're just trying to pick at something because you have nothing to actually say
Subject L: you've been doing that since you got here
evil can of joy:i say avril is a posuer, you say i didn't know wher Bam was from
evil can of joy:that was the first
Subject L: oh wait. dont bother with that because you'll be like "aw. i dont understand. that makes no sense"
evil can of joy:dodge
Subject L: hahahah. you fogot everything inbetween
evil can of joy:no, but i'm not gonna go back and read it all while continueing to argue with you
Subject L: right.
evil can of joy:i'll definately be sure to look it over and point everything out on my site
Subject L: because there's nothing to say
Subject L: hahahah. where you are always wrong.
Subject L: i sure hope you fixed all your typos
evil can of joy:not if i put it on my site
evil can of joy:i'll not doctor it at all
Subject L: right.
evil can of joy:when you stop doing the same
Subject L: ahahah i never said my opinions were facts
evil can of joy:i can't recall one fact either of us has relly proven
evil can of joy:neither did I
evil can of joy:what?
evil can of joy:dodge
Subject L: well actually past IMs that turned into posts on your site
Subject L: i've pointed them out to you before
Subject L: and alot of this IM.
evil can of joy:yeah, but i never said that all my facts were true
Subject L: you act as if they are and try to push it onto others.
evil can of joy:and you have as well
Subject L: no i haven't. i dont go "wait no, thats not how its done" unless someone says something wrong and i try to point it out
evil can of joy:but that's what i do, you just can't differentiate between what i do (you claim is wrong) and what you do (which is the same thing)
evil can of joy:neither do you!
Subject L: yea i do. i just ignore most idiots because what they are saying can and sometimes is total bullshit
Subject L: i think everyone does
evil can of joy:is this getting to you at all?
evil can of joy:if that's true, then how can you say it to me as if i'm wrong if everyone does?
Subject L: yea. but what you say out of your mouth is supposed to be right (thats what you're thinking). and when someone talks about whatever you happen to be talking about, right away you think you are always right.
Subject L: they dont always think they are right
evil can of joy:as if you don't think your always right?
Subject L: i don't
Subject L: i know im not always right
evil can of joy:then why not listen to other people more? i thought that's what you good at
evil can of joy:at least that's what you've alledged
Subject L: im only a good listener when people need to vent their problems. thats what i meant.
Subject L: when people say they're a good listener, thats what they mean 99% of the time
evil can of joy:"thats what i meant" is the problem you can't mean anything, you have to make it known, esspecially on the AIM like this
evil can of joy:i can't insinuate what you really "mean" just as much as you can't tell what i "mean"
Subject L: it would be no different in preson
evil can of joy:well, except for that pesky body language thing, it isn't
Subject L: my first year. my speech teacher didn't cover that. she was a total jackass. all we talkeda bout was what kinds of speechs would would do and how we couldn't say "um" and always had to look her in the eye. as well as the class
Subject L: like what
evil can of joy:wait for my site's new rant and i'll show you
Subject L: hahahah. are you obsessed?
Subject L: wait not. thats a rhetorical question
