Originally posted on Dragon Clan Chat
Untitled No.7
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 3:13 pm Post subject:
Untitled No.7
-------------------------------
Shiro Mirumoto
[the deck is based on drawing into a set of card combos and holding
on to them till later in the game as such Mirumoto's card draw
is superior to Shiro Tamori's]
Toturi Tsudao
[repeatable send home defense for against the type of decks we
reliably get the favour against]
Personalities (17)
3x Tamori Chosai
[cheap 4 chi shugenja, great stats]
3x Tamori Chieko
[again a cheap shugenja with great stats, is the only 3 chi personality
which can come in handy for Iajitsu Art]
3x Tamori Hiroko
[another shugenja, more card draw especially versus honour]
2x Hoshi Tadao
[chosen over Shaitung because he has 2 force for peasant revolt
and good stats]
3x Kitsuki Tadashi
[dishonour defense, our most killed personality. At very worst
draws cards and fetchs the favour, extremely good as attaching
the Celestial Sword to him makes you immune to Shame and lets
you refuse Iajitsu Challenges]
3x Hoshi Yoson
[core of the deck, gains 7 honour off Iajitsu Arts]
1x Mirumoto Shokan
[useful in so many ways]
Regions (2)
2x Campsite
[big late game defense]
Events (3)
1x Welcome Home
[free honour, helps us meet honour requirements]
1x Imperial Gift
[same as Welcome Home and fetches either Celestial Sword against
honour for Tadashi or Sampan for against military]
1x Peasant Revolt
[more military defense in that it can buy you a full turn]
Holdings (18 )
3x Jade Works
[the 3 gold cost is annoying but it does produce three]
3x Gold Mine
[2 for 3, no reason not to]
1x Shrine to Daikoku
[as above]
3x Noh Theatre Troupe
[vital versus honour, can produce honour against military by
chump blocking with sacrifical defenders]
2x Sanctified Temple
[guaranteed honour producing holding]
2x Shrine to the Sun
[stops In Time of War]
1x Gifts and Favours
[in case of gold screw]
3x Small Farms
[smooths out the gold scheme]
Fate (41 - including make a wish)
Military defense (21)
3x Importune Kami
[by itself it can kill certain military decks, also forces your
opponent to attack only one province thus making your one shot
defense cards more effective]
3x Torrential Rain
[saves provinces late game, almost perfect defense when the personality
has Sampan]
3x Entrapping Terrain
[saves provinces, can be useful both early game and end game]
2x Flattery
[early game can save a province even without presence, also works
late game with campsite]
3x In Search of the Future
[useful early game and can help later on with Importune Kami,
doesn't require presence]
3x Overwhelmed
[wins games versus blitz if drawn early setting them back a turn
or two, combos with other send home later on in the game to kill
personalities]
2x Refugees
[more early defense can also help later on with Importune Kami,
doesn't require presence]
2x Block Supply Lines
[good early defense, better than refugees against followers although
does require presence so needs a defender early game and potentially
a chump defender late game]
Honour meta (4)
2x Fist of Osano Wo
[honour is all about who has the Noh Theatre Troupes and this
kill your opponent's, useful to take out other holdings such
as the Underhand]
2x Deeds not Words
[slows down other honour runners, can also be used on your turn
to stop their Noh Theatre Troupes, preventing them from going
over 40 while you do]
Duelling (8 )
2x Wholeness of Self
[wins duels, can be useful against military to get rid of force
bonuses, check day of week to see what it does to a Celestial
Sword as per rulings, prevents uncertainty taking our personalities
into Kolat Master range]
3x Iaijutsu Art
[easily won with Wholeness of Self and has a 7 point honour gain
when used with Hoshi Yoson, holding till later in the game works
best]
3x Geisha Assassin
[8 gold cheaper with Wholeness of Self making it cost effecient
personality kill without honour loss and targetting restrictions]
Other (8 )
3x Walking the Way
[only as good as any of your other broken cards]
2x Balance in Nothingness
[cancels a lot of effects from Shame to Retirement]
1x Make a Wish
[make a wish: $5, a win with dragon: priceless]
1x Celestial Sword of the Dragon
[total dishonour protection with Kitsuki Tadashi, added honour
and its always nice to have force]
1x Sampan
[protects our defense from sneak and scout]
1x Porcelain Mask of Shokan
[useful in so many ways]
First turn 3 gold producer.
2nd turn make Shokan for honour, getting a small farm either
first or second turn.
3rd turn attach Porcelain Mask to Shokan and take a province.
Rally
Accessible
Rally
Accessible
Rally
Accessible
Win.
Turn 1 buy gold
Turn 2 buy gold and Noh
Turn 3 Welcome Home resolves, buy Chosai and Chieko for honour
and a Noh
Turn 4 buy Yoson and Tadashi for honour and Imperial Gift resolves
fetching Sword
Turn 5 Attach Sword to Tadashi, attach Wholeness of Self on Chieko,
Art Art Art with Yoson
Turn 6 Win.
This is a little bit slower than the Shokan route.
Ok, so that's the ideal game but it essentially
summarises how to play the deck. Make your cheap personalities
for honour early but make sure you're also getting gold into
play (for Baz's benefit after his game in the top8 :wink: ).
Hold onto the wholeness and arts until you're within striking
distance and watch your opponent cry as you gain 20 honour in
a turn with him unable to use his deeds or winds truth. Once
over 40 you've got Tadashi for dishonour protection to make sure
you don't go back down again.
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Last edited by Hitomi Touken on Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:47 pm; edited
1 time in total
Hitomi Kinrei
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Untitled No.7
-------------------------------
Thank you very much for the decklist, Touken. Though, dude, you've
gotta find a name for it!
I'll put it together and do some playtesting
during the week-end. But some random commentary first.
Hitomi Touken wrote:
Shiro Mirumoto
[the deck is based on drawing into a set of card combos and holding
on to them till later in the game as such Mirumoto's card draw
is superior to Shiro Tamori's]
Basically, wholessness + duel, right?
Did you have much difficulty in getting Hiroko
out, without the Mystics? I agree that MD makes for a poor gold-scheme,
but without them Hiroko is soooooo expensive...
Quote:
2x Hoshi Tadao
[chosen over Shaitung because he has 2 force for peasant revolt
and good stats]
Yep - I've come to the same conclusion, despite
the horrific HR. I might replace Tadao with Tamori Shiki in Clan
Rivals tourneys (and after she becomes legal), though.
Quote:
3x Kitsuki Tadashi
[dishonour defense, our most killed personality. At very worst
draws cards and fetchs the favour, extremely good as attaching
the Celestial Sword to him makes you immune to Shame and lets
you refuse Iajitsu Challenges]
Sweet. I've been edging to use him for ages,
but have never manages to get a right of deck together.
Quote:
3x Torrential Rain
[saves provinces late game, almost perfect defense when the personality
has Sampan]
Sanpan, now that's a nice idea...
Quote:
3x Entrapping Terrain
[saves provinces, can be useful both early game and end game]
I agree, they can be very strong. However,
if your local environment features lots of Rats, Scorpion military
or Halls Lion, they are so much wasted cardboard. I have, in
the past, also had issue about the way that including only three
Terrains in deck gives an opponent that runs three Sup Tacs a
very affordable one-for-one trading ratio.
Quote:
Honour meta (4)
2x Fist of Osano Wo
[honour is all about who has the Noh Theatre Troupes and this
kill your opponent's, useful to take out other holdings such
as the Underhand]
So true its not funny. A must post-H&E.
Wholessness of Self makes duelling a laughing
matter, of course, but did you ever have any problem in duelling
without it? I did not spot, for ex, Kakita Dojos which can also
easily win Arts with Yoson.
Quote:
2x Balance in Nothingness
[cancels a lot of effects from Shame to Retirement]
Very true, though a skilled opponent will
shame only unbowed peeps. I would include a third one (swapping
awau MaW).
Quote:
1x Porcelain Mask of Shokan
[useful in so many ways]
Not the least because it covers Rob's terrific
(as in: "inspires terror") facial accessory! Worth
including just for that. *runs and hides*
_________________
Hitomi Kinrei
Dragon Clan Troublemaker * Team Jade Cat
So the wise soul, without great doings, achieves
greatness.
-- Lao Tzu
Togashi Heijin
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Untitled No.7
-------------------------------
Hitomi Touken wrote:
3x Geisha Assassin
[8 gold cheaper with Wholeness of Self making it cost effecient
personality kill without honour loss and targetting restrictions]
Holy crap, never thought of that. It's got
the same cost to chi ratio as Kolat Assassin (10g to kill a 4
chi peep) but can be used more efficiently as you only pay for
what you need or can take out bigger peeps if necessary. And,
as you say, no honor loss. And 4 focus. Sweet!
Since you're already running Tadao, what about
Ring of Earth?
_________________
Togashi Heijin
Dragon Clan Acolyte of the Sun
Monk * Tattooed * Angry
"The time for war is past. Let us turn
from the Phoenix to face our true enemy - Tamori."
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:06 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Actually it'd only be 8 gold for a 4 chi personality as a draw
is just fine in the duel
It's also very pleasant to be able to deal
with a Sword wielding Hoshi sitting across the table from you
(though it is quite pricey).
Other cards which have been put forward for
consideration are bane of the bastard (mostly to deal with rats
as I can see no other way of dealing with them efficiently early
game) and uncertainty as it not only works for early defense
but also enables you to target Yoson so he can art low chi personalities.
The ring of earth would also be worth testing
as has just been mentioned.
One of the things you'll notice that many
people will consider controversial is no Wind's Truth. I'm not
totally sure if this is a good idea or not and testing may reveal
that they are better than the Fist of Osano Wo. I'd edge towards
Fist as things stand but I could be persuaded the other way as
well.
Now onto answering a few questions. The deck
is indeed al about wholeness + duel and I remember seeing Baz
gain 25 honour in a turn in one game. The game I lost to Tom
McDonald was at least in part because I hadn't played the deck
enough against honour and made my move on the arts too early.
Hold onto them until they will take you past 40. That way your
opponent either has to waste his deeds early game to stop you
reaching 20, which is an inefficient use of the card at best
or they are totally useless as you art for 20 pts of honour.
Hiroko was not a problem at all. The personality
base is actually pretty cheap and you're not as dependant on
the spells for defense as many dragon decks (as you can use Yoson
or Tadashi for presence while the shugenja keep up the IK to
limit military options).
I totally agree on swapping out Tadao for
Shiki when she becomes available.
I was only running 2 entrapping while Baz
was running 3. It's one of the cards that could be cut down if
you're looking to make room for something else. That said it
is free and surprisingly efficient in a lot of games (even if
they are using actions to kill it that's not only them having
to use up cards but also an opportunity for you to send home
their big units). Take the initiative and make them fight to
keep units in the battle.
I've no idea if I would've had problems duelling
without Wholeness because I never did it. As I've already said
keep it back until you need it. That way your opponent cannot
be sure of what to expect until it is too late. The only time
I'd drop a Wholenss earlier would be if I needed to Geisha something.
I agree that a skilled opponent will normally
shame unbowed personalities (in the same way you should Art unbowed
personalities) but that's what Tadashi is for
Oh, and Kinrei-san, you have no idea how long
it took us to come up with that name...
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Last edited by Hitomi Touken on Tue Jul 01, 2003 9:27 pm; edited
1 time in total
Togashi Heijin
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Hitomi Touken wrote:
One of the things you'll notice that many people will consider
controversial is no Wind's Truth. I'm not totally sure if this
is a good idea or not and testing may reveal that they are better
than the Fist of Osano Wo. I'd edge towards Fist as things stand
but I could be persuaded the other way as well.
Fist is way better in this environment. Wind's
Truth fuels the opponents' Nohs. And, as you say, Tadashi deals
with dishonor just fine. In a different deck I'd run both but
for what you're running I'd say stick with the Fist instead of
TWT.
_________________
Togashi Heijin
Dragon Clan Acolyte of the Sun
Monk * Tattooed * Angry
"The time for war is past. Let us turn
from the Phoenix to face our true enemy - Tamori."
Kitsune Kainko
Location: Somewhere wishing to be elsewhere...
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 10:29 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Untitled No. 7 rocks though!
Its all about the Art baby... all about Art...
Rob Bowman
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:00 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Greetings,
Ben I have been talking to Baz and Justin,
and all I can say is I am in awe. Congrats on a very solid performance,
and an even more solid deck... <bow>.
_________________
Take care,
Rob- Mirumoto Shokan
Kaminari
Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 95
Location: Regensburg, Germany
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:05 am Post subject:
-------------------------------
Fine deck idea and your focussing on a toic should make it rather
reliable...
What about replacing Shokan by Shaitung xp
and using some Bronze Lanterns?
A single person bowed by the Revolt doesn't
matter, but an after revolt attack with two lanterns can be devastating!
Shaitung is a nuisance against Phoenix players and she's got
the "-" (maybe I'm getting paranoid after eating two
first turn 4 points honor losses on the Kotei... )
_________________
In times of war the voice of peace must ring like thunder
Rob Bowman
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 9:45 am Post subject:
-------------------------------
Greetings,
Quote:
1x Porcelain Mask of Shokan
[useful in so many ways]
First turn 3 gold producer.
2nd turn make Shokan for honour, getting a small farm either
first or second turn.
3rd turn attach Porcelain Mask to Shokan and take a province.
Rally
Accessible
Rally
Accessible
Rally
Accessible
Win.
You know I just read thru your deck list and
comments closely this morning. Mind explaining the above passage...
And to think I was so complimentary !! In
all seriousness I will be playtesting many variants of this deck
soon. Nice idea Tassilo, but I do not see how to fit the Bronze
Lanterns in .
_________________
Take care,
Rob- Mirumoto Shokan
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:11 am Post subject:
-------------------------------
I think the bronze lanterns are better off of Tamori and probably
don't add enough to this deck to make them worth while. May be
worth testing though.
My main worry right now would be rats as they
don't have the chi for you to duel them (except Zintch) and possibly
some crab variants for the same reason. That's the main thing
that needs work IMO Baz may disagree.
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Kaminari
Location: Regensburg, Germany
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:54 am Post subject:
-------------------------------
- Mask,
- 1 Importune Kami
- 1 Overwhelmed
That's on first sight, but playtest may prove
otherwise.
_________________
In times of war the voice of peace must ring like thunder
Bayushi Hantakira
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:27 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Untitled Deck no. 17 would probably be closer to the mark I think.
I dont know how many different dragon decks I played in testing
but it was alot
_________________
Bayushi Hantakira
Scorpion Clan Internal Affairs
"OK I make Paneki for honor. I go up
zero."
"I make Yudoka for honor. I lose 1 honor"
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:47 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
It's No.7 because Yoson's art is all about 7.
We started writing a decklist that organised
all the cards into sets of 7 but were one card short and it was
impossible to read.
Too little sleep can make the oddest of things
seem funny.
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Rob Bowman
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:28 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
Greetings,
As I have stated Touken-san your deck is very
solid. In deck building, I see two important skills, inspiration
and preserverance. I am not gifted with inspiration, and I have
been struggling for the proper answer to the current environment.
I think you have helped in that regards, and now I will try to
use whatever meager skills I have to help make this deck as good
as possible. And ftr, now that I know what the 7 stands for,
I am calling this deck DIKY7, or Dragon Irish Kotei Yosun's 7
! Yeah, you can thank me later !!
Here are my thoughts on the deck itself...
Tadao x2 could be cut. With no rings, he has
no special abilities, and despite being 6G he has that 8FH issue.
Instead I like Barei (check all those spells you have in the
deck again), and then maybe Tjeki.
Shokan is gone !! I would put a MD here, and
maybe a Yemi putting me at 41 cards.
On the fate side last night I played 47 cards
to try some things out. I went 4-0 facing a Phoenix Honor, Yasuki
Honor/Military, Tamori corrupt blitz, and a Dragon honor deck.
I like everything you have in here, assuming that Shokan's mask
is the Sword . So I kept all that goodness and added 3x TWT and
3x Scroll Cache.
The reason for the Scroll Cache is that in
a honor matchup, this card can create a huge honor swing. Even
if I just use it on bringing out a 3PH peep, that is a 6 honor
swing. This card is too huge to leave out imho.
The Scroll Cache is another very solid card
in this deck. The vast majority of time the Scroll Cache just
refills your hand faster, and thus keeps the Hirokos in business
longer.
Well is summary I thought the deck flowed
great. Clearly some expert tweaking on the Fate side would be
wise, and this might only improve the decks potentency !!
Congrats again and thanks for sharing... <bow>.
_________________
Take care,
Rob- Mirumoto Shokan
Mirumoto Taneka
Location: London, England
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 2:45 pm Post subject:
-------------------------------
My main interest in this deck is it's record versus corrupt blitz
and the current crop of Crab decks winning kotei's this season.
Not only that, it's record versus Rats is
quite important; at GenCon you'll most likely see 10-15% of the
field playing some kind of rat deck.
Can Ben and Baz please enlighten us as to
how they found their matched went at the kotei, taking into account
the level of the opponent they were playing.
Regards,
Mirumoto Taneka - Rokugani Traveller
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I lost against Rats at the kotei, in fact I got hammered by the
furry creatures but given Mark's start that was not totally surprising
(he took, the got lost souls to prevent my gifts unbowing, then
hurricane to blow up my gold mine, by which time he had 2 white
rats and 2 other rats with followers! ).
The problem is there's no really good rat
meta with the possible exception of Bane of the Bastard, which
I'd consider but Baz thinks is weak. If people know of any strong
rat players to try testing this against I'd be very appreciative.
Uncertainty may also help.
Does anybody have a decklist for a corrupt
crab beserker deck that I can test against?
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Last edited by Hitomi Touken on Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:47 pm; edited
1 time in total
Hitomi Hokosaki
Location: Kyuden Hitomi
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:12 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ended up playing 2 military decks Goblin Blitz and scorpion
military. Insearch and refugees kept me long enough in the game
to start developing. With those few early turns bought the deck
has quite a lot of defense. Normally the importunes force everyone
to attack a single province which can be defended with entrap,
torrential or flattery (a last recourse) although on occasion
an insearch and/or send home can do enough.
Hopefully an early overwhelmed can kick some teeth out of a military
deck. In the end though a large chunk of it is down to luck.
Take Bens loss against Marks kyuden hida rats, mark takes, Ben
gets gifts and favours, Mark resolves lost souls, Ben makes a
holding, Mark resolves hurricane. Next turn Ben has 1 holding
effectively taking his second turn. Mark is about to start his
4th turn and has managed to go first with a take. Not much you
can really hope to do against that.
Military is nast in the current environment, we're hoping the
vast amount of defense in combination with the sudden burst to
40 honour will allow us to win against most military decks.
That said... more testing is needed.
Justin Walsh mentioned the idea of the deck to me a bit before
the kotei, I had played around with the idea to some success
but didn't feel confident of it till I got it roughly into this
incarnation with Touken's help (after about a bazillion other
decks). Unfortunately we only had about a days testing and after
the kotei we had a sit down and dicussed the deck some more.
The version above is not the one we played but a modifed version
which we are happier with. Given more time and testing I'm pretty
confident we could have done better than 9th and 5th. The games
we lost were to Mark Wooton's (first place) Kyuden Hida Rats
(Touken) and Tom McDonald's (second place) Crane deck which we
both lost to but I did beat once. As seen above the game against
Mark was unrecoverable but after sitting down after the kotei
both me and Touken both acknowedged we had been making mistakes
against Tom. That's not to say we now think we could have beaten
him, rather than it would have been a different game and we both
feel had we played the game differently (next time I won't gold
screw myself) we would have had a much better chance.
Kyuden Hida Rats is the deck to test against,
plan is to survive the early blitz with cards like insearch,
block, overwhelmed. Kill the White rats with wholeness Geisha
and get a sampan out to protect against sneak or scout making
our torrentials count. Will it work? We have until Gencon US
to test it. It's my personal opinion that this should be the
dragon deck of choice for those making it to Gencon, I think
it's our best shot.
Mirumoto Taneka
Location: London, England
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 3:30 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
It's my personal opinion that this should be the dragon deck
of choice for those making it to Gencon, I think it's our best
shot.
I would guard against getting into that frame
of mind Baz; I seem to remember Mr Bowman saying something similar
when he started winning with Drunk Dragon and being a bit dispondent
when it was realised that The Shadow's Claw didn't work for Iai
Art (damn them!). And there are other players succeeding out
there with Dragon and are equally competitive. Eljas Oksanen
proved that we have more than one deck in the current environment
(I'm not above playing corrupt Dragon - jeez how I've changed
my tune over the months!)
Unfortunately, there is no ultimate Dragon
deck. They all have their weaknesses and assets. You need to
play the right deck for the right meta.
I do honestly think though that susceptibility
to military is a weakness. Especially rat blitz decks. There's
no doubt that Dragon honour can beat most other honour decks.
If you really want to convince me that this style is playable
at GenCon (which I WILL be going to), I would really like to
see this stronger against military.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I'm
not thoroughly convinced it's the best deck out there. That said,
I will playtest it against good opponents against the specific
decks it needs to beat at GenCon US - yes I am looking into decks
to run for GenCon Indy and considering this one.
Regards,
Mirumoto Taneka - Rokugani (bandwagoning) Traveller
Mirumoto Taneka
Location: London, England
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:33 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Couple of recommendations for the deck:
I would absolutely recommend 3x Master of
the Bells in this deck. Not only as extra shugenja, but as meta
versus corrupt decks and RA/Yogo Towers/SATW protection for a
shuggie with Torrential Rain attached.
Drop a block, a flattery, and entrapping terrain
to fit these in. They are so totally worth it.
Regards,
Mirumoto Taneka - Dragon Clan Samurai - Travelling Sensei
"His origins are from gaijin blood, yet he grasps the Niten
like they were born to him. Still, we do not trust him and his
wanderings..."
Rob Bowman
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:41 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings,
Just to be clear, no deck is forever . The
Drunk deck was absoluetly the deck *for*a*time*. Take out the
Art/Claw, and add Tireless to the mix and the deck is done.
At this point and time you have to look for
the new deck. Yes it was hard for me because...
1) I suck at deck inspiration.
2) There was no new deck.
3) The Drunk was personal, and that clouds
judgement .
As of this minute I have the most faith in
this deck. Doesn't mean I will play it at GenCon, but I will
be playing it for the next two nights .
_________________
Take care,
Rob- Mirumoto Shokan
Togashi Heijin
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:03 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gempukku helps this deck nicely...
_________________
Togashi Heijin
Dragon Clan Acolyte of the Sun
Monk * Tattooed * Angry
"The time for war is past. Let us turn
from the Phoenix to face our true enemy - Tamori."
Kitsuki Kijushen
Location: Kyuden Sezaru
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 2:34 am Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
After some extensive testing against a corrupt crab blitz deck
I would recommend the following changes:
1) Flattery doesn't help enough because they
add force too quickly. In order to use it you will have to give
up vital defense cards even with campsites. Take it out for Master
of the Bells.
2) since flattery is out, replace campsite
with sorrows path to make blitzing harder.
I happen to be missing a third geisha assassin
and overwhelmed though, so its possible that could be the root
of my problems. As always, YMMV
_________________
Kitsuki Kijushen
Dragon Clan Tattooed Samurai * Duelist
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:02 am Post subject:
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Thanks for that. This kind of advice is really useful in that
it highlights where the problem is (from playing games) and goes
on to suggest a way to deal with it.
The overwhelmed may help but I agree flattery
may still be a bit weak. Will try a few more variants myself.
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Tamori Hidetoshi
Location: Karlsruhe/Germany
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:35 am Post subject:
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Ryoshun´s Last Words could cause some problems, so i´d
really think about Imperial Edicts...
I played against No. 7 on Tuesday and the reason I lost was because
I could find only one Ryoshun´s Last Words when putting
my deck (pure Tamori blitz) together, IE really helps against
those and +4 province strength isn´t bad either.
_________________
"The kami are my armor. My faith is my sword.
Face me when you are ready to die."
Mirumoto MaPhi
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:18 am Post subject:
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Tamori Hidetoshi wrote:
Ryoshun´s Last Words could cause some problems, so i´d
really think about Imperial Edicts...
I played against No. 7 on Tuesday and the reason I lost was because
I could find only one Ryoshun´s Last Words when putting
my deck (pure Tamori blitz) together, IE really helps against
those and +4 province strength isn´t bad either.
I agree. I was desperately wishing for an
IE when we played that game last Tuesday. That card should go
in there, I just wonder what to cut for it.
I didn't have Flatteries in there, otherwise
I would ditch them now - with most of the hand beeing defense,
it's not worth to ditch it for a Flattery
_________________
Mirumoto MaPhi
Dragon Clan Samurai * Unique * Non-Native Speaker
Hitomi Hokosaki
Location: Kyuden Hitomi
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:47 am Post subject:
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After looking at the Clan Rivals kit it occured to me that Nemesis
would work quite well instead of wholeness for a non shugenja
based deck.
You lose tons of great fate cards so I wouldn't bother but it's
still good to note that you could go for the samurai monk variation.
On taking out Campsites, even without flattery
they can late game draw you into important cards like another
torrential and those arts to push you over the top...
Hitomi Touken
Location: Shrine of the Moon, Phoenix Lands
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:13 pm Post subject:
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While I would consider removing them if not running flattery
I don't think I'd use sorrow's path as the replacement. As I
see it sorrow's path is only really useful in the early game
(or mid-late game if you run heavy pkill). As this deck is quite
light on the pkill I don't really see them as being that useful.
I'd be more likely to run 1 fields of the
dead and 1 fields of the morning sun. That way I should be able
to keep at least 1 province safe against both crab/horde and
lion. As the primary honour gains are from the fate side surviving
on one province is still viable as long as you have a few personalities
out.
_________________
Hitomi Touken
Team Fierce
Togashi Tozobi
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:25 pm Post subject:
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eh,you`re prolly better of going for 2-3 of the same region
1 isn`t enough now that Ruins of OU are around.The opponent will
nuke the region that stops him and leave the other one alone(Horde
nukes fields of teh dead,lion nuke morning sun),while having
2-3 of the same region will help(if the regions actually decide
to show up of course)
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Dynasty (40)
