Brian wrote:
[quote of email]
"Anyways, in your last response to my question on how one gets to heaven according to Islam, you said that you would never know if you are going,but that's it's through Allah's decision on whom his forgiveness resides.
Does this mean that Allah will forgive some but not others....and if so, based on what? Forgiveness means the forgetting or whiping away of someone's sin penalty. So WHO Allah forgives can't be based on how good they are, for that's why they would desire forgiveness in the first place, because they need it. If they were good enough, then they wouldn't need forgivenes. So does this mean that some people have sin yet others don't. Now if we all have sin, how does Allah decide whom he forgives?
You say that Allah is merciful and gracious, and this is backed up by the starting of every surah in the Qu'ran. Yet, wouldn't that mean that that is his character, and that it can't change. ....So, why wouldn't everyone be forgiven? Obviously, according to Islam many are going to hell, and many are going to heaven. Does Allah forgive whoever just because he feels like it? Would this then mean that Allah is not a just god, because he doens't deal with everyone with the same standard?
Al-Qur'an says that 'eveyone will recieve his just reward' (Surah 3:161). Accordingly, if one does bad, he has to be rewarded bad, ultimately Hell...for Allah will have to give him his just reward. Is there any criteria that gives that Muslim assurance of being forgiven, would then be the next and most important question one would ask.
Basically, is there SALVATION in Islam?
If one person was 51% good, yet 49% bad, would he go to heaven, because on the scales he weighed out good? If it's true that he would, then it seems this person is earning heaven on his own merit, and has no need for Allah's forgiveness. Would every person who is 51% good and 49% bad earn heaven? If they don't, then how can Allah be just?, for his standard would be different for everyone. If it is true that we earn heaven on our own merit, then what is our need for God? For all we have to do is make sure we are more good than bad. I wouln't have to be a Muslim then , or believe in Mohammed's message, or even get to know God - becuase all i have to do is be good. But we know Islam teaches we this is not so.
So, then where is our salvation? How do we get it?
Do we earn it? ...according to the last paragraph, we don't. Is it based on whom Allah forgives?.., meaning it would ultimately be his choice and not our own, leaving us paying the penalty in hell yet without anyway to avoid it on our own account.....ultimately being the question of his character, if he is a just god or not.
Sir, does, or can, Islam answer the question of Salvation? I've been reading the Qu'ran like you told me to. However, i have come accross no solution to our sin problem. If there is one, please reference me to those passages in the Qu'ran.
Thank you so much for spending the time trying to answer my questions. I know you are truly seeking God's truth, as I am. Keep in strength friend.
Pursuing God,
brian lucero
www.angelfire.com/realm2/truth/islam.html
Taqee wrote:
Dear Brian,
I hope this letter finds you well. I'm responding to your inquiry about salvation in Islam. To answer your questions best, I would ask you a little bit of clarification. You mentioned at the end of your last letter that you hadn't come across a solution to "our sin problem." To be sure, this phrase is a bit unclear because I was not sure to what you were referring. Please clarify, if you would.
In a general response to your last letter, though, Muslims believe Allah has many attributes, as you know. He is the one who originated mercy, forgiveness, love, justice, etc. As a Muslim, I have trouble answering your line of argument in the last letter because I believe that Allah is the wisest of all judges and omnipotent in every way. This sort of inherently precludes my ability to question whether He is being fair with anyone--because I am sure He is fair.
Your questions about 51% good and 49% bad are not anything that anyone really has the ability to answer, to my knowledge. Not with certainty, that is. But what we do believe from what Allah has said and what His prophet has said, peace be upon him, is that those who believe in God alone (His one-ness, His day of reckoning, etc.) and do righteous deeds for His sake and who seek to keep themselves from committing forbidden acts are those who will enter paradise.
I have probably not answered anything you wrote, so please correct my tangential response when you have time.
Sincerely,
Taqee #$%^&
Brian wrote:
Greetings Taqee in the name of the True God,
Thanks for writing me with your concerns. Keep praying and asking God to show your the right path, with an open heart, for in that you will find the truth.
In response to your email, I will start with the comment on Allah attribute of mercy manifested in forgiveness towards man. My analogy with the 51% good and 49% bad man was to show whether Allah had a clear standard of criteria for which he would judge mankind with. If Allah is fair as you claim, then the question really isn't that hard - for according to the theology of surats 7:8-9 and 21:47 in the Qu'ran, fairness would be to forgive everyone in the same manner with the same criteria, leaving every man with the above merit residing under the forgiveness of Allah, not just some but not others.
However, as I stated in my last forum conversation, there is no clear standard for forgiveness by Allah that is homogeneous throughout, or the same for every man, in other words - fair. If Allah was just, then the standard that he would judge everyone by would be impartial, immutable, unchanging, ....just also. However, the Qu'an makes it clear that this is not so. Let me list a few verses which emphasize this:
Sura 3:129 - "Unto Allah belongeth the heavens and the earth. He forgiveth whom He will and punishes whom He will."
Fakhr Al Razi writes in explanation of this verse, "Our colleagues allege in support of this verse that seeing as Allah is above all, He has the right to bring into Paradise through His divine judgment all unbleievers and rebels, and He has the right by His divine judgment to send all the upright to Hell. There is no protest against Him in the doing of this." Further he says, "The verse clearly indicates this meaning and the intellectual proof supports it also, because the deeds of man depend on the will, and that will is Allah's creation. If Allah created that kind of will, man obeys, and if He created another kind of will, he disobeys. Man's obedience and his disobedience are alike from Allah. As for the acts of Allah there is nothing obligatory for him. Obedience does not necessarily bring reward, nor disobedience of necessity deverse punishment. Everthing is from Allah, and is according to His divine will and compulsion and power."
The point that Allah is not obligated to keep his words or promises is shown in this verse:
Sura 2:106 - "Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?" See also: 13:39 ; 17:86 ; 16:101.
Sura 7:178 - "Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He causes to err, these are the losers."
Sura 16:93 - "And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and
guides whom He pleases." See many more at
Sura 6:25 - "And of them is he who hearkens to you, and We have cast veils over their hearts lest they understand it and
a heaviness into their ears; and even if they see every sign they will not believe in it; so much so that when they come to
you they only dispute with you; those who disbelieve say: This is naught but the stories of the ancients."
Sura 18:101 - "The infidels whoes eyes were veiled from my warning and had no power to hear."
Sura 81:27-29 - "It is but a reminder to the worlds to whomesoever of you chooses to go straight; but ye will not choose,
except God, the Lord of the world, should choose." And many, more: [9:87,93], [10:75], [16:108], [30:59],
[40:35], [47:16], [63:3].
According to these verses it seems that Allah is not fair in his judgment, but that he is capricious in his choosing, and
forgives only those whom he "feels" like, for there is no set standard. And even if there were one, Allah has the power to
abrogate or change it whenever he feels. This is a very shifty and unstable "god of mercy" to base one's eternal salvation
on.
Now if one does seem to 'find' a standard in Islam, say that of being good verses bad, then salvation is of self merit and
works alone, not salvation as the term generically means nor forgiveness. For one has to be perfect to escape the
punishment of even one trasgression:
Sura 99:7,8 - "...and whoso doeth ill an atom's weight wil see it then."
Sura 3:161 - "Then shall every soul recieve its due, - whatever it earned, - and none shall be dealt with unjustly."
From these we see that God will punish even the smallest of sins committed. Therefore we all fall short of the glory, of the
perfection needed to escape punishment, to escape hell. This is the sin problem that we all have. Yet Islam gives no
solution to it.
However, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish,
but have everlasting life." .....He made a way out, a sacrifice for our sins, so that justice would be paid and sill, all our
sins would be paid for, leaving us THE WAY to heaven cleared. Jesus solved the sin problem for man. Just as animal
sacrifices attoned for the sins of the Jews, so did Jesus' blood attoned for ours. "Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life." -
John 14:16.
In sincerety,
Ahmed wrote:
Brian:
I read both your postings with great interest and it seems that you are confused about the concept of "reward and punishment" in Islam. You have also raised another point about "guidance" in Islam, like who is guided and who is not. Both are different issues and I will only talk a little bit about the former.
1. If I knew today that I will go to heaven just because someone has already paid for all my sins, what would I do or become? I would commit sins and become sinful without any consideration for accountability on the day of judgement. Now if the whole society believes in such a theory, you can imagine what the moral state of that society would be. Because I know that I will be judged on my BELIEFS and ACTIONS in hereafter, I STRIVE to find the right path and tread it.
2. Please take time to read Surah 103 (Al-Asr) of Quran. It will explain the concept of salvation in Islam.
Hope to hear from you soon
Brian wrote:
Thank you for writing me Ahmed with your concerns with my logic.
You are right, I am confused about the concept of "reward and punishment" in Islam, even after many hundreds of hours of conversations with Muslims and studying and reading the Qur'an. That is why I hold the position that There Is No Salvation In Islam - because there has not been a straightforward solution communicated to me of it's problem.
Your hypothesis in point one of your argument is just that, an hypothesis. That logic did not come from the Qur'an, or statistics, but that you believe it wont work. It seems you are limiting God to what He can do - telling Him that He cannot perform His promises. (See the Old Testament - for if Jesus didn't die, all the prophecies of it happening would not come true, and God would be a lier). I beleive that my sins ARE paid for, and, as you can ask anyone who knows me, my lifestyle follows that which seeks hard after pleasing God. Point one of your argument has evidence against to the contrary....my life.
In actuality, if one did pay for my fine, I would be that much more in gratitude to that person, in consequence, trying to please him more. If one does love God with his whole heart, he will keep God's commandments. If he does not, then he will cast off the significance of the sacrifice that God gave for us, treading down its importance, and start to run back to his old sinning lifestyle. In full belief, I disagree with your point one.
For point two, let me quote the surah that you claim explains salvation:
Surah 103 - "By (the Token of) Time through the Ages, verily man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy."
I have faith, and do righteous deeds, and teach truth, patience, and constancy. Do I recieve salvation even though I am not in the fold of Islam? This is a very wide gate for salvation. I still hold my stance that salvation is not clear in Islam.
In love,
Brian Lucero
(12-03-02)
Brian
(12-04-02)
