Also, my comments are only my opinions, and I'm aware that your beliefs may differ. But try to have an open mind, as I keep mine open.
Q. Isn’t that “Scientology” or some new age thing?
A. Christian Science is nothing to do with either of these. Christian Science is the study and practice of primitive Christianity—that which Jesus lived, demonstrated and taught, and in following his example in every way.
Q. What’s the difference between “primitive Christianity” and mainstream Christianity?
A. Mainstream Christianity follows the fourth century theology of saint Agustine, in which for political reasons—while the Christian churches were defining themselves—he instituted the idea of Jesus as God.
Q. But Jesus is God! What about the trinity, and “I and my father are one”?
A. Then you have to take the two or three places in the New Testament that Jesus makes statements that seem to allude to this as truth, and rationalize them against the approximately 117 other places where he refers to God as his father, and who he prays to—and who all things are done by. Jesus and our Father are one, in quality, but not in quantity. God is forever above and separate from His creation, but we all forever reflect Him, as His children. The belief that Jesus is God would also break the first commandment.
Q. But Jesus was the one ‘son of God’. We are not equal to Jesus.
A. In 1st John, Paul says “Now are we the sons of God.” We each have the exact same potential that Jesus had, but most fail to use it. He was not some super human with mystical powers, but human as the rest of us, and the only difference is that he proved God’s goodness and allness, each and every time, and did not falter, even when faced with bearing the cross. Jesus said “the works that I do shall ye do also; and greater works than these.” He, more than any other, consecrated himself to God (good) and proved what he knew, which is the task before any sincere seeker of truth.
Q. We cannot heal as Jesus did. He was special, and we do not have the same power.
A. All power is of God, and we have the same ability to demonstrate it as Jesus did—and many do. One of the main points of Christian Science is to not just talk the talk—but walk the walk—and ‘prove what God is, and what He does for man.’ For well over a century, there have been tens of thousands of well-documented healings—things that modern medicine cannot heal, such as HIV, cancer, other ‘terminal illnesses’ and broken and lost limbs, as well as every common disease.
Q. That’s right—you don’t use doctors. Why not?
A. Why didn’t Jesus, our great example, send even one of the stricken people that came to him to a physician? And why weren’t physicians able to heal then, the same as now, even with great advancements in modern medical technology? Why do we have more medicines, doctors and technologies, and less health?
Christian Science holds, as Jesus did, that sickness and the subsequent curing of it, is no part of matter (the physical body). Where did healing come from, and how did it take place? All good—healing being of that—is of God, and comes not through matter, but is of Spirit. ane comes through a radical reliance (though not blind faith) on God, and an understanding of Him, and of ourselves, as He created us--perfectly, and spiritually, not materially.
All disease originates in the human mind before it is manifested on the body. The belief that we are mortal, sick, sinning, dyiing... or that we can ever be seperate from God. Therefore if one tries to cure disease through the body—one can only temporarily try to halt it—but modern medicine cannot keep you from getting sick. To cure disease, we must first understand that it has no rightful place in our being, which is truly spiritual, because God did not make it, nor make man to suffer. And if God is omnipotent (all power) omnipresent (everywhere) and omniscient (all knowing) then there can be no power opposed to Him, and no other power then to impose these unjust sentences on us.
If we cure the false belief that we are material, that matter can have any power over us, or that we can lack health, the body will be found healthy—for the body follows thought (mind) and not vice versa. The body, of itself is not self-acting, and nothing can be done of it unless mind first makes it so. You don’t write something with your hand unless your mind first tells it to do so. It cannot do so of it’s own accord.
Q. But doctors are given the skills to heal us—by God.
A. Doctors have every good intent to heal, and they are great people, but one cannot cast out disease, which has it’s root (origin) in mind, by physical means. True healing comes from a change in thought—as Jesus proved—not from a change in physical circumstance. To try to use matter to fix a problem that has it's root in mind--believing that we can be sick, sinning, or dying--is like cutting a weed at the base. it grows back because the roots are still there. It's the difference between a temporary relief, and a curative. Material medecine cannot keep you from getting sick, and can only sometimes seem to heal it--and never with certain results. Through understanding who we are, and who God is, and what He does for man, it has been proven now, as in Jesus' time, that we can conquer anything that would be opposed to God, or Life.
Q. But I heard about someone who passed on from an illness, who was a Christian Scientist… Shouldn’t someone rely on a doctor at some point?
A. Is there anything that God cannot do? When Jesus’ disciples came back unable to cast out a devil—which Jesus quickly did, they asked “Why could not we cast him out?” “And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”
God can do anything, and the only thing that would prevent this is our “unbelief”, lack of faith or understanding, or other ways in which we morally or otherwise get in the way of God’s ever-present power over all.
Now if someone just has a belief or faith that something works—that God can heal—but does not understand it—then this faith is blind, and can do more harm than good. And is has always been encouraged that if someone does not think that they are able to handle a specific challenge metaphysically, that they seek the medical route. Inaction is the worst thing someone can do—not do anything—but just stay in limbo, with no means to improve the situation. Christian Science is not a religion of blind faith—but on the opposite end of the spectrum, it is about putting into practice, and understanding the way in which Christ Jesus healed—which is not abstract or miraculous—but is Divinely natural, and a demonstratable Science, which has been proved effective (thus the term Science: something proovable) tens of thousands of times, and in my own life.
Q. Christian Science can’t work. It does not heal.
A. It is God alone, and the right understanding of Him that heals. The Pharisees of Jesus’ time gave him the same ultimatum, and inferred that he somehow worked by the supposed power of satan to do the works he did. Jesus’ response to them was “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?”
Christian Science cannot bring about healing unless it’s through God, for healing can come about no other way. And, as Jesus also said in a parable, “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
And so anything will be known by its fruits--and all the tens of thousands of healings since Christian Science was first founded, attest its efficacy, and sole reliance on God.
Q. But don’t they look at Mary Baker Eddy as God?
A. Not anyone who is practicing it rightly. All power is of God, and the discoverer and founder of Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy, has never sought, in any way, to be more than who she is—which is just someone who was receptive to God’s revelation, the same as any of the people who wrote books of the bible, or the prophets, and has discouraged fully any attempts by misguided followers to try to somehow deify her. All religion is practiced both correctly and incorrectly. Q. How can a woman be the founder of a Church?
A. It is the old days of man-made creed that suppose any sex to be superior. It was woman who first confessed her fault to God (Eve) when Adam only shunned the responsibility. It was woman who was pure enough of spirit and faith to give birth to Jesus, and to first behold the risen man. It was also woman that has brought the lost element of healing, and the pratical understanding of all that Jesus did, back to the forefront of mankind, though it is not often more accepted than Jesus was in his day. True followers of that Christ ideal will never be popular, and will more often than not be persecuted. Christian Science is not a convienient religion (just show up on Sundays) but demands of us consecration to Truth and doing right, every hour, and bearing the same proverbial cross that Jesus did, though we may walk with 'bleeding footsteps'.
Q. And don’t Christian Scientists look at Science and Health as the bible?
A. No. Science and Health, with key to the scriptures, by Mary Baker Eddy, was her revelation into the bible, and is meant to give insight into the scriptures that would “bring back primitive Christianity, and it’s lost element of healing.” It’s no different than the sermon of a pastor of any church, only this revelation was Divinely inspired, and written down. The Christian Science church delivers it’s sermon each Sunday from the bible, with correlating passages from Science and Health, which unlocks the scriptures the same as any pastor might—but in ways that are radical to modern Christianity—in a radical reliance on God. Science and Health is never a substitute for the scriptures, but is always only a reference to them, and students of Christian Science are to turn to the bible for their own study, which is outlined in the tenants of Christian Science.
Q. What are the tennants of Christian Science?
1. As adherents of Truth, we take the inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life.
2. We acknowledge and adore one supreme and infinite God. We acknowledge His Son, one Christ; the Holy Ghost or divine Comforter; and man in God's image and likeness.
3. We acknowledge God's forgiveness of sin in the destruction of sin and the spiritual understanding that casts out evil as unreal. But the belief in sin is punished so long as the belief lasts.
4. We acknowledge Jesus' atonement as the evidence of divine, efficacious Love, unfolding man's unity with God through Christ Jesus the Way-shower; and we acknowledge that man is saved through Christ, through Truth, Life, and Love as demonstrated by the Galilean Prophet in healing the sick and overcoming sin and death.
5. We acknowledge that the crucifixion of Jesus and his resurrection served to uplift faith to understand eternal Life, even the allness of Soul, Spirit, and the nothingness of matter.
6. And we solemnly promise to watch, and pray for that Mind to be in us which was also in Christ Jesus; to do unto others as we would have them do unto us; and to be merciful, just, and pure.
Q. So is Christian Science just about healing illness?
A. No. It’s about every single facet of Christianity that Jesus taught, demonstrated and gave us as an example.
Q. Well I am a Christian, so how is that different?
A. Most denominations of Christianity focus on select aspects of Jesus’ ministry and teachings, which is often the emphasis of converting unbelievers, and living a 'Godly' life. But this only a small part of Jesus’ demands on all of us. “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.” Of equal importance as spreading the gospel, is healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, raising the dead, and casting out demons. And most importantly, it's about overcoming sin and mortal ways--for higher, spiritual ways--but not supposing that Jesus gave us the supreme example to save us the work of having to make the same demonstration he did. As much as we turn to sin, we turn away from God, and make our own hell. And as much as we turn away from sin, not in being humanly pardoned by a priest and then free to commit the same sin again—but in forever turning from it, we turn to God, and find peace.
It’s the willingness to not only live a good life—but prove it, and prove God’s goodness and allness, and to be willing to bear the same cross our master bore, and drink the last drop of the cup he drank. Nothing short of that is true atonement (at-one-ment with God) for the example and sacrifice he made for all mankind, nor deems us true “Christians” in any sense of the word. Christian Science is perhaps the most demanding of any would-be followers of Christ, to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And to do so not out of self-righteousness, but out of love ‘for God, and for our neighbor’, and out of selflessness, and in all Truth.
Q. But how can I raise the dead?
A. If you, as Jesus did, understand our relation to God, our true being as indestructible, our life as in God--Spiritual, which no man nor thing can take away, and the falsity of so-called death (“oh death, where is thy sting?”), you can raise the dead. It’s no more than a crystal clear understanding of God and His perfect principle—but few demonstrate the faith and understanding to put this into practice—though people have done it.
Q. But man is fallen from God. Adam messed it up for everyone.
A. Man is not fallen, but upright, whole and free. We are only as tied to Adam’s sinning race of mankind, inasmuch as we continue to sin, and believe man to be mortal--which is, as Adam. But Man, made in God's image and likeness, is not material--but Spiritual. Mortal man, which is but a human and erroneous belief, is not God's man.
Q. But isn’t man mortal, only to be found spiritual in the hereafter?
A. Man is never material—man is never attached to the body he may inhabit in this lifetime—but is purely spiritual, as God made him. As much as man thinks or embraces himself as mortal—as nothing more than the body he inhabits—man cannot overcome the belief of death, of sickness, or of sin, for all these things are of the flesh—but are not of the Spirit. When man’s true selfhood is recognized as only spiritual, never in nor of matter, man will be found able to demonstrate over all these things, and his life, found in God, Spirit, alone—is untouchable by any of these corruptible things. For as Paul writes, “this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
Q. But Jesus died to take away our sins--so what do we have to do?
A. Jesus did not give us this supreme example to save us the need to prove it for ourselves, or overcome it in our own life. His sacrifice was not a ‘get out of jail free’ card for anyone who wants to continue to sin. We must still overcome it every day in our own lives, and nothing short of this shows true gratitude for the sacrifice he made, or repentance.
Q. Do you participate in communion, to commemorate Jesus life?
A. Twice a year, we have a special communion service, but it involves no bread nor wine (or crackers and grape juice) as communion is looked at spiritually—the bread (his body) and the wine (his blood, or life) being best commemorated, not in some material ritual, but in spiritual honor, in living a life that commemorates him.
Q. What about being baptized?
A. It is in no way discouraged, but again, Christian Science looks at it more than a physical ritual, but a spiritual baptism, born not with water, “but with the Holy Ghost.” And as Jesus implored his disciples, “Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”
If you are interested in learning about Christian Science for yourself, you can find out more about it here: spirituality.com, or find “Science and Health” on amazon.com.
Discussions on Christianity with a friend. She writes:
Where does it say, "All these things you can do and more!"? I want to see the passage. It says that we can do all things through Christ who gives us strength, which I certainly believe. But we are nothing without him.
I don't understand, if you believe in the Bible, how you can believe that Christ was nobody special? I certainly do not know of ANYONE else who was born of a virgin. We had our chance to be what Jesus is, and we spoiled it in the Garden of Eden. But Jesus is the "second Adam", sent to the world to give us another chance. And he certainly could have screwed it up and sinned, just like Adam did. The devil knew this or he would not have wasted time tempting him. But he did not sin. He is pure. I know of none else who can honestly say they are without sin.
No, we are not born sinning, but we are born with a sinful, selfish nature. Have you ever seen a group of very young children in the same room with just a few toys? They fight over them. They want the toys for themselves, and they will scream and hit and bite until they get their toy. Surely that isn't Godly behavior. I don't believe they are sinning, because they aren't old enough to understand right and wrong. But all the same, they demonstrate the nature with which we are all born. When Jesus said that we must become like children, he meant that we must be that available and receptive to His truth. We must not care what others around us think for believing in Him.
Baptism isn't something to make people think better of you. It is a testimony. When I was saved, I wanted everyone to know what had happened in my life, because I wanted them to be able to experience the same joy! When you are saved, there is something incredible takes place in your soul... something that cannot be seen. But through testimony - baptism, actions, words, others will see what God has done in your life.
No, you can NOT be saved through confessing anything before man. That is simply testimony. You CAN be saved, however, by confessing to God that you know you have sinned, asking for forgiveness, repenting from that sin, and believing in God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ, as Messiah.
Prayer is not something with which you make yourself look better through. The Pharisees were the kinds of people who demonstrated religion, stuck to the rules, and did everything that was supposed to be right. But religion is not the path to God. Through Jesus we may be saved and will find God. The Pharisees focused on religion rather than God's will, because they cared so much about what men thought of them. Jesus said" go into your closet and pray in secret" because he wanted to emphasize that prayer was communication between man and God only, prayer was NOT a tool to get in good with God AND man. The same goes for religion ...
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My response:
First of all I'd like to preface this: If we are actually learning from one another, or growing individually in our relationship with Him, than all this is of use. But if all that is being done is trying to prove who is right and who is wrong--then it serves no purpose. And I work, that this may be of useful purpose.
[John 14:12] "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
No, we are nothing without Him--God. But to me, the man Jesus was not God--but one who has embodied, expressed and demonstrated the Life that is in God, more than any other. And to that end, God is in him, and he is in God. And we all have that potential, and use it to differing degrees. To call Jesus "God" would break the first commandment, and would go against every time Jesus gave all praise to 'his father'. I don't agree with deifying Jesus, or the theosophy that God came into the flesh (He cannot... for there is no kinship between spirit and matter--they are complete opposites) and then died and went back to heaven.
To me, there is a difference, that not many make, between Jesus the man, and the Christ. Jesus was the man who embodied and expressed and lived that Christ ideal more than any other. But it is able to be expressed in any life, if that life is consecrated enough to God. The Christ is an ideal that we all can put on, and take up Jesus' cross, as he bade us, if we follow him, through all truth and love. But this is not often done, and I don't think, despite the great growth of popular Christianity, that much of anything has changed than in Jesus' time. "If that Godlike and glorified man were physically on earth to-day, would not some, who now profess to love him, reject him? Would they not deny him even the rights of humanity, if he entertained any other sense of being and religion than theirs?"
Truth was not accepted by the 'religions' and elders and church people of then (for even his disciples did not follow him in the way he commanded, and only St. John did not betray him) and it's still not accepted, because it requires too much of people. People want a convenient religion. One where they fancy that they are easily forgiven, and so free to commit the offence, or where it does not require much of them. But this is not the example that Jesus gave us. We must be willing to take up his cross, drink to the dregs the cup he drank--willing to leave all things of this earth for God, Spirit. And if we are not daily doing all he asked of us--in rebuking sin, healing disease and overcoming death, as he did, what place do we think we have in the Kingdom of Heaven? It is no ticket of confession, but only is gained by sacrificing everything, always, and in the way Jesus showed--not in our material versions of worship and 'homage' to dead rites.
I DO NOT believe that the Christ was "no one special". But there is a separation for me in what you are talking about. Jesus, in embodying the Christ, or God's Truth, made the highest sacrifice any could ever make--and that is a supreme sacrifice. but he did not do that to save us from having to make our own sacrifices...but to show us how. I think too many take that to be that he did the work for us, and so we need not prove God's goodness nor follow Jesus' supreme example.. but just confess him and kick back and wait for the rapture--since they already have a 'ticket' in. But the only ticket to heaven is, again, DAILY turning away from all evil, sin disease, death--and rebuking it, and embodying and manifesting all love, goodness, compassion, charity, meekness and strength.
Jesus was the most special--but not in a way that he was the only one capable of being that special, as his own words, above, clearly say.
And no one needs to be 'born of a virgin' to be that special. This is why Jesus said we must all be 'born again not of the flesh but of the spirit'. It was the Pharisees that implied that this had anything to do with physical birth (as being born of a virgin) when nicodemus said 'but how can a man pass the womb a second time?'. We must be born of a new spirit. For it was John who baptized with water--but the Christ baptizes us not of water or anything material--but of the Spirit.
I respect what you believe. But for myself, all Adam represents, in that allegorical tale, is the first error or wrong committed by man, and the rebuking of it. It was also the Pharisees that took all the scripture literally, which Jesus also rebuked and told them the whole point of it--the heart of the scripture: to love god, and our neighbor. If you take everything from the allegory of genesis to the same of revelation--then the true meaning of the scriptures is lost. It is not the material, but the spiritual interpretation of what the scriptures contain that is the heart of it.
What's the story of the 'Loves and Fishes' about? Food? No. It's about man having seeming lack, and the abundance that comes from those who trust in God as their infinite supply, as Jesus did and gave thanks when he broke the bread. What is revelation about? Some woman floating around and literal dragons and some city in the stratosphere? No. It's about good finally prevailing over evil, in any form. it's about the kingdom of heaven, but not in any way that our human senses perceive it. What's Jesus' immaculate conception about? That the only good person ever to come into the world must be born of a virgin? No. Moses, Elias, Solomon, Paul... they did not some this way, yet were good as well. The point is that life does not come from a sperm inseminating an egg. ALL life is from God, and is spiritual. Why did Sarah conceive Abraham's son at 90 years of age, when this was physically impossible, yet happened in turning to God? Because God is ALL life.
Why did Jesus even speak to everyone allegorically, in parables? "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted." [Matt. 13:10] Interesting. "Conversion" comes with understanding of the heart. And do you think that most Christians today see with new eyes, hear with new ears, and follow "the way" the Jesus lived, to every last requirement? Or do they look at the scriptures word for word, claiming the material interpretation of God's Word, as the Pharisees did? I really don't think much has changed in the following of Truth, and the way it is perverted in the name of some hypocritical good, which is quite contrary to Jesus' example.
No one spoiled anything for me. Adam did not take me any further away from God than I make my belief. But Adam, illustrating the opposite of the Christ--or turning to matter and the path of sinning mortal man, rather than spiritual man, did teach me how not to live, as Jesus taught me how to live. "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." [1 Cor. 15:22] Did Jesus go around saying 'man--sucks to be you guys because that Adam guy messed it all up for you!'? no. He saw God's own likeness in each and every one of us, and that is why he was able to heal--through God, and the understanding that man and creation IS perfect. He saw with new eyes. He did not consult what brand of disease someone had--but healed all just the same. He did not see as mortal man saw. As Adam, or all those around Jesus at the time. He looked at man as spiritual and perfect and whole--not as sinning and flawed and sick and dying as mortals see. And as the scripture says: "behold, NOW are we the sons of God." Not some far off time, but right now. Perfection is not some far off attainment--but can be made our experience here and now, inasmuch as we follow God, through the way that Jesus demonstrated.
And no--Jesus did not sin when tempted, and proved himself to be pure. But this is not something like a repellent he had against it. He worked HARD, through sweating 'blood' to keep himself pure in temptation, and is different from any other man in that he just stuck it out longer, in supreme demonstration to us all--of how to live ourselves. But no one seems to get that. People think he did the work for us, and we get to kick back. Not the way I chose to live my life. If I am not spending every moment doing something to better the world, or heal myself or others, or bring more truth and love to others, or to not be compassionate or charitable... than I am no better than Adam, and have no better standing with Him than Adam.
but purity is something earned through all trial and tribulation--and is not some extra feature on the Jesus car.
And I do not agree that "we are born with a sinful, selfish nature." Why then did Jesus say that we must all become as children?? Why would he tell us to become as some child with a sinful nature?? A newborn child has no sinful nature. It is the education of that person in the myriad forms of mortal nature--of sinning, wrongdoing, and all the things that are human constructs: time, disease, death and so on--that makes mortal man, which is a sinner. But we are not born that way, and have no predisposition to that, unless we embrace mortality and all the lusts of the flesh. but we can just as easily, if done earnestly, turn away from it.
Children fighting over toys? Where do they possibly learn THAT from?? I shouldn't have to answer that one, and I have seen more peaceful children than not, who do not fight. It is those who have become wise in the ways of the world who think they lack anything, when in reality God has already given us EVERYTHING we need, before we have needed it, abundantly. There is no real lack--of heath, wealth, beauty, substance, sustenance... and when that is realized, wars will cease, and peace will reign. All wrong that is done stems from a belief that we can lack something. Power. Land. Peace. Liberty. We already have all that through God--but few realize it.
"When I was saved, I wanted everyone to know what had happened in my life, because I wanted them to be able to experience the same joy!" I think that is beautiful, and of a pure motive. But when we experience Salvation that comes with daily doing God's will, do we have the works to back up the words we profess? Words without works are fruitless. That is why Jesus *proved* his speech, and didn't just preach, but healed, and did every good work, and turned away from every bad thing--even though they crucified him for doing so. We all can "experience that same joy", but only as we diligently follow the way Jesus mapped out. Again, baptism of the spirit, not water, nor confession of the lips, but "in deed and truth".
So tell me--do you really think much has changed between the pharisaical creed of Jesus' time, and what mainstream Christianity professes and walks today?
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Her response:
To be honest, I am learning a lot about what you believe, and I enjoy learning about others' beliefs, so to me, this is not an argument, or trying to prove who is right or wrong. If you do not mind, I would like to continue learning more about what you believe, if it is all right for me to continue as well?
Details, details.... it is difficult to understand what exactly your religion, as well as your beliefs, is based on when we talk only about the details. I would love to go back to the basics with you and ask a few questions if you do not mind?
As you have stated, we do not have a sinful nature and must only do the following in order to earn salvation:
*Turn from all evil, sin, disease, and death. *Rebuke it *Embody and manifest all love, goodness, compassion, charity, meekness, and strength.
Are there any additional items to add to that? I just want a clear list. Is this list of items what you interpret as "The Law?" So we are under The Law, as in the Old Testament? Also, how often must I do these things on the list in order to please God? I assume that I must do them when the opportunity is set before me? But then, what do I do if I slip up or back down from one of these opportunities? Must I just ask for forgiveness, or do I need to make up for the missed opportunity somehow? How will I know when I have God's acceptance?
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." - John 3:16. What does this verse mean to you?
My world view is based on answers to the following three questions: *Where did we come from and who are we? *What is wrong with our world? *What can we do to fix it?
I believe there is little difference between the pharisaical creed of Jesus' time and mainstream Christianity today. In general, Christians today are often lukewarm and works-oriented. They follow the rules, and go to church and look good, but they are focusing more on the rules than on God's love and grace. It's too bad that the true Christians have obtained the same reputation and bad name as the lukewarm, religious people who claim to be Christians.
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My response:
details. basics. is there much of a difference? surely basics have details :)
One thing that is important, is to distinguish between the relative and the absolute. If I asked you if the sun rises in the east, you might answer "yes". Well, to our relative experience, yes it does seem to move around us. But in reality, or the absolute, it is the planet we are on that rotates around it. So there are things that are relative (changing) and absolute (unchanging) to us, and our experience.
For example, in the relative, we seem to be in a human experience, seem to be attached to a sinning, mortal body, but in the absolute, we are perfect, spiritual creations, with no attachment into anything mortal or finite. Whether or not we realize/prove that in our experience now--who we truly are--is the question of all questions.
I would say that if you are turning from all sin, evil, disease and death, then you are keeping both Christ's and God's commandments, and are living the life he gave us as an example. And what more is needed? To "confess"? Words are of the pharisees. I'm not saying it hurts, but your heart speaks to God, not human words. words are only for other people. That's why Jesus told us how to pray by "going into the closet" and "praying to your Father who sees in secret". not to be "seen of men", as so many do.
As "satan cannot cast out satan", so doing all that is commanded of us cannot be done without making that Christ example our own. Only a humble, honest and God-like heart can achieve these things, because they are only done through Him.
And again, this is whether or not we chose to take the scripture literally, or spiritually. When we say 'Salvation is through Christ', does that mean, to you, that it is through some 'rite' of Jesus as some name we hold sacred... of confessing to some idea, and then we are saved, or is 'salvation' attained only inasmuch as we follow his great example?
"behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation" [II Cor. 6:2] Not some future time, but right now.
"work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." [Phil. 2:12] Any thoughts on that?
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" [II Thes. 2:13] "salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
"the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation" [II Pet. 3:15]
To me, salvation is as much as you turn towards, and do the will of God. To me, it's not about what your lips say, but what your heart, and actions say. For too many speak of what they would do, in loving God, but they do not keep the commandments, and live not the life that would give creditability to what they profess. "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." [Rom 7:19]
And I wouldn't call that "the law", as in mosaic law. To me, there are only really two "laws": Love God supremely, and love everyone as ourself. I might say there are many rules to life, which Jesus makes some mention of in the sermon on the mount. But if we love God supremely, and our 'neighbor' as ourself, then everything else would follow, as Jesus said.
"how often must I do these things on the list in order to please God?" There is no magic number. We must do it always, and forever. But God is not, as all good, and all love, One who is pleased, and displeased, as we humans personify it. God only knows what is good and true about each of us. He is not a God of vengeance and wrath, as so many make Him to be. God is Love, as the scriptures declare Him to be. And as much as we turn towards Him, in following the Christ example, in truth and love and all charity, meekness and good deeds, we find heaven, for as Jesus said, "the kingdom of heaven comes not with observation, but is within you." And as much as we turn away from Him (and He never turns from us) we find our own hell (a place without God).
"Must I just ask for forgiveness, or do I need to make up for the missed opportunity somehow?" Forgiveness, to me, is not just lip service. If we are truly sorry, we will stop doing whatever it is we are doing wrong. Did Jesus tell people to go tell God how sorry they are and how they will never do it again? No, he simply said to each sinner, "go, and sin no more." We are forgiven when our sincerity is proven by our actions, and not just by what we profess.
Mary Baker Eddy writes: "Every pang of repentance and suffering, every effort for reform, every good thought and deed, will help us to understand Jesus' atonement for sin and aid its efficacy; but if the sinner continues to pray and repent, sin and be sorry, he has little part in the atonement,--in the at-one-ment with God,--for he lacks the practical repentance, which reforms the heart and enables man to do the will of wisdom. Those who cannot demonstrate, at least in part, the divine Principle of the teachings and practice of our Master have no part in God. If living in disobedience to Him, we ought to feel no security, although God is good."
"How will I know when I have God's acceptance?" We all always have His acceptance. He can know no less of us than the perfect ideas He made us. Is is we that see ourselves as any less, and again it is well to not personify him with traits that are human, and infinitely below his ways. "behold, now are we the sons of God." He is our ever-loving Father. He does not accept and reject. WE do that when we turn to him in our life, or away from Him. You have His acceptance right now. But we only 'enter in' through 'constant self-immolation, and always striving to assimilate more of the Divine character'.
John 3:16 means to me several things. 1. The love God has for us. 2. That we find all good ('the kingdom of heaven') or "eternal life" through the example that Jesus left us, which is the Christ, or the ideal man. To me, "believing" on the Christ is not just to have a blind faith, but to prove 'what God is, and what He does for man', as Jesus did. To demonstrate, as Jesus did, God's goodness, in healing the sick, raising the dead, cleansing the lepers, casting out demons, loving every other, doing all good deeds, preaching the gospel and truly serving--for "the greatest shall be the least, and the least the greatest." Otherwise, again, it's just lip service, and affords no proof that we love him, for "if ye love me, keep my commandments."
What does John 3:16 mean to you?
And when you say "my world view", are you making any distinction between the absolute and the relative (the world, as mortal, erroneous, and finite (relative); and each idea of God--each individual, as 'having our being in Him'--who is not of the "world"--as a part of spiritual, infinite existence (absolute)? That would be important in attempting to answer your questions.
I would answer them: (knowing that creation exists in the absolute) "Where did we come from and who are we?" We are the sons and daughters of God. We are created in "His image and likeness". We are perfect, individual expressions and reflections of an infinite, good, all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful and ever-present God. Our true life, and existence is in Him, and He is our only sustenance.
"What is wrong with our world?" The mortal world? Most everything is wrong with it. it's material, and not spiritual. It is finite, and not infinite. It embraces the human senses, and not spiritual sense. In and of itself, the world is not an evil, per se, for God gave us all good things to help us along our journey from sense to soul. But the 'things of the world' and the 'lusts of the flesh' are no part of Him, and we must be careful where we put our "treasures". perhaps asking "what is wrong with the world" needs to make a distinction between God's perfect creation, ever-intact, (the spiritual) and the material world...?
"What can we do to fix it?" I would say that my purpose is not to 'fix' the material world, for there is no way to fix it, and it, being material, will always have no part of God's spiritual kingdom, but to understand and demonstrate, as Jesus did, spiritual creation "what is that good and perfect, will of God". Again, clarifying between the relative and absolute is helpful here. God's creation needs no 'fixing'. It is already perfect. But we must prove and demonstrate that, again, as Jesus did, and see creation, with "new eyes", as truly spiritual, never in nor of matter, or 'the world'.
"Christians today are often lukewarm and works-oriented." I don't see how being "works-oriented" is a bad thing, nor how one can have "God's love and grace" without them. For again, "if ye love me, keep my commandments."
"It's too bad that the true Christians have obtained the same reputation and bad name as the lukewarm, religious people who claim to be Christians." To me, reputation has nothing to do with anything. Most any good we do "will be evil-spoken of". Following the path of Christ is no flowery path, but incurs every thorn and scorn that Jesus did. If we are 'true Christians', then we are suffering as he did, to do every good and faithful deed. It's no path of convenience. Jesus own 'reputation' was nothing when he made his supreme demonstration and example. Of all the people he healed and blessed, and all the good he did--of all he proved to all his disciples--the only one to never forsake him was St. John. So I would never gauge my effectiveness as a 'Christian', or worthiness, but the reputation I would have, and if I am doing something right, my reputation wouldn't necessarily be that great, for "the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not."
Thoughts on Relationships:
When I would get in relationships with people, I would lose all sense of my higher connection to God, and basically just get wrapped up in them--they were my life. When I lived like that, I would be perpetually hit with depression after they would end. After my two engagments broke off, I would be depressed for months at a time--until I found my true self again.
When I would put all of myself into them, and they would leave, or things would get sour, I would feel like part of me was lost--and it would take a long time for me to find myself again.
The way I finally overcame this was by first devoting myself soley to God--so that I had a relationship that would always last... one that no one could take away from me. I found that when I first devoted myself to Him, not only was I never really down on myself again (because I was aware of the magnificent and eternal Love for us), but I found, and continually do find myself blessed in so many ways. I also find that when I trust in Him, I can more easily discern who I should persue a relationship with--as my motives became more spirtual and less worldly.
So my advice to you is this. Seek God whole-heartedly, and let no one or no thing interfere with that. In fact, the best thing to look for is someone who will help you grow closer to God.
I know that you have known His Joy, Love, Compassion, Grattitude, and ever-present Care. I can honestly tell you that if you develop a relationship with God, first and always, and devote yourself to Him, you will never again know these seemingly sad times. The truth is, Happiness and Joy is the only thing you truly can express.
[7.10.02]
Creative Writing:
