Mmmmmmm-WAH! That's a big Dinah Shore virtual kiss for you Paradiddle.

As a member of our building's disaster response team, may I add that it's nearly impossible to cover everything that can happen in an emergency AND it's nearly impossible to prepare in a way that satisfies everyone reviewing your plans.

Rosa da mini-Disaster Fighter

...oh yeah...I got first dibs on "huggles", so...nyah! 

::salutes Paradiddle in a sloppy, civilian manner::

Good post. "The nature of my business is that things have gone horribly wrong long before anyone decided to let me know about it" is a line I think I'll remember for quite a while.

I agree with your (experienced) opinion that everything that could have reasonably been done was done, but I do have a few questions.

First, do you know if FDNY have helicopters for water drops? Could they/would they have dumped water on the WTC if it was feasable? (Given the nature of the fire, it probably would have done no good in this case.)

As for pumping water, there's my area of expertise. One of them, anyhow. The height a stream of water can reach is determined by its velocity coming out of the hose. Pumping water faster can increase the height, but it also increases pressure drop, as you say. Obviously, there's a practical limit to how much pressure the line can withstand. There's your limiting factor. And, as you clever firefighters figured out long before I did, it's much easier to pump the water to the top of a tall building and then spray it than to spray it directly from the ground.

Also, did the steel melt or just weaken? I've been debating this, and managed to find the structural steel used in the WTC couldn't have had a melting point above 1500 C. Now, what does Jet A burn at?

Alchemy "Hmmm"

Oh, dear. Parmee. I just had the filthiest thought: Is "paradiddle" a play on paramedic + the verb "to diddle (oneself)?"

Rosa, you and Manta are both correct. At the time I was registering for ULMB, I was signed up (I later withdrew the application) to take Paramedic training. I'm also a drummer and wanted a SN that musicians would recognize. Therefore, "Para" has a dual meaning. "Diddle" is a term used in drumming in reference to certain rudiments. A 'paradiddle' is one of the basic rudiments of drumming.

Originally posted by Texas Chainsaw Alchemy;First, do you know if FDNY have helicopters for water drops?

Short answer; No, I don't.

In general, tactics employed in wildland firefighting have little use in an urban setting. Shipboard tactics have limited applicability as well. They're all different animals and must be strategized differently.

There are tall buildings and there is (was) the WTC. In a building that tall, a fire engine on the street can't pump water that high with enough pressure to be useable. The fire engine, along with the supply from the water main, supplies the building's firepumps which provide enough pressure at the nozzle for the Firefighters to use.

Now we're into that whole 'brain surgery' analogy I used in my earlier post. I'll leave that answer to the structural and chemical engineers who are doing a forensic analysis (I'm sure) as we speak. The ULMB is about the last place I'd want to elocute on a topic I know nothing about.