Martin Shaw? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Tim on Wed Jul 19 21:40:39 BST 2000:

Max Bygraves - or is he dead? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John Pettigrew on Wed Jul 19 22:18:42 BST 2000:

I heard it's going to be Roland Gift. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Thu Jul 20 00:55:22 BST 2000:

Liam Neeson. Richard Dreyfuss, Kevin Spacey!!!, Gabriel Byrne..
Someone quirky but with gravitas. Every time I think about Tom Selleck doing it all I can think of is 'Moustache! Moustache! MOUSTACHE!' The Doctor must not have a moustache. Or a beard... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Miffy on Thu Jul 20 08:45:58 BST 2000:

I would like it to be John Cusack...unless of course the BBC have any input at all then of course it'll be Alan Davies. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Jul 20 09:23:15 BST 2000:

How about Jimmy Saville... damn, Rob S will have to close this strand down now... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bellal on Thu Jul 20 09:25:23 BST 2000:

I heard Roland Gift too. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Pompidu on Thu Jul 20 10:41:45 BST 2000:

How about Simon Callow, or is he busy doing more 'Chance'? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Barry Letts on Thu Jul 20 11:39:39 BST 2000:

How about TV's Mr Pastry, Richard Hearne? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John Scott Martin on Thu Jul 20 17:38:43 BST 2000:

Uncut said Stephen Fry was in the running. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By dr_hackenbush on Thu Jul 20 19:55:04 BST 2000:

How about TV's Mr. "Too Much Pastry", Richard Herring? He'd be fantastic! That otherwordly, faux-naif quality. Jolly but with an edge of menace. Plus I understand he's available at the moment.
Imagine the confused faces of the thick- spectacled, jumper-wearing lardy Dr. Who fans as he pissed all over the legacy by doing jokes about drinking the milk of his assistants and stalking Bonnie Langford.
No, seriously, he'd be great.
I know we all have to hate Alan Davies, but he would actually be quite good, wouldn't he?
Anyway, the whole thing will by definition be shit. It will be tailored to American mass-market expectation by having lots of computer effects and misguided "action" sequences (remember the Die Hard rip-off fire hose bit in the last one, kids). Any genuinely weird bits (do you remember the one where people were being executed by Bertie Bassett - I mean, JESUS) would be cut by no-nothing producers. There would be a soundtrack featuring Travis or someone. The only way it could capture the unsettling quality of the old TV series would be by doing Blair-Witch style in an abandoned part of Milton Keynes. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By dr_h on Thu Jul 20 19:56:08 BST 2000:

know-nothing, I mean Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Jul 21 06:50:07 BST 2000:

I think it's time for a female Dr.

How about Sally Phillips? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Jul 21 09:21:46 BST 2000:

>I think it's time for a female Dr.
>
>How about Sally Phillips?

I don't think they should have a female Doctor. But whoever it is, they should get yer man McGann back for the regeneration sequences, otherwise it'd be silly.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Paul Cornell on Fri Jul 21 09:50:23 BST 2000:

Anyone know any more about the Roland Gift suggestions above?

I think he'd be good. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Jul 21 10:32:09 BST 2000:

Christoper Ecclestone, Richard E.Grant.
Christ, I remember writing comments like this in letters to Dr Who Monthly
fifteen years ago.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard Hurndall on Fri Jul 21 13:01:49 BST 2000:

Mark Gatiss rumoured!

Bastard. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Jul 21 13:12:12 BST 2000:

Richard Hurndall - very obscure. Well done. IMDB confirmed my suspicions! Having said that, the only reason I know that is because I spend far too much time engrossed in IMDB.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By RapH on Sat Jul 22 09:43:07 BST 2000:

Erkan Mustafa. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sat Jul 22 11:32:39 BST 2000:

Reg Varney.

Mr Bennett from Take Hart. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Pegg on Sat Jul 22 14:49:48 BST 2000:

Me Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John on Sun Jul 23 18:35:12 BST 2000:

How about Boney M?

Or Bob Carolgees? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Pillow Biter Man on Sun Jul 23 18:35:56 BST 2000:

How about Boney M?

Or Bob Carolgees? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mememe on Sun Jul 23 20:58:45 BST 2000:

Tommy Cooper would be great, if he was not sadly deceased. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mememe on Sun Jul 23 20:59:20 BST 2000:

Chris Morris!!!!! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sun Jul 23 21:41:08 BST 2000:

>Chris Morris!!!!!
"Where now for Cyberman raised by puffins?
Dismantled Rassilon found sliding along road.
Sontaran in expanding neck unpleasantness.

There's a picture there of Tony Gubba..."
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Peter Ohanraohanrahan on Tue Jul 25 22:53:17 BST 2000:

"But before I could open my mouth, the Master was pierced by a shaft of frozen urine ejected by a passing airliner..." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jack Woolgar on Wed Jul 26 00:03:52 BST 2000:

"People say Vraxoin's a drug. It's not a drug, it's a decomposed Mandrell..." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Wed Jul 26 00:18:19 BST 2000:

"You can kill a Silurian in about a second. Just kick its face off." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Peter Ohanraohanrahan on Thu Jul 27 09:14:58 BST 2000:

"This is my assistant, Alan."

"Thanks Chris." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Peter Ohanraohanrahan on Thu Jul 27 11:10:01 BST 2000:

(after regenerating)

"I'm particularly pleased with the balls." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mememe on Thu Jul 27 12:39:26 BST 2000:

Doctor: Who are you?

Alien: (slight giggle)Mr Lizard

Doctor: Don't Fuck me about! Who's your leader?

Alien: Another Mr Lizard. Hehe, you put Lizards in your TARDIS, hehehe

Doctor: Stop Fucking me about!

(etc., etc.) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Roland Gift on Thu Jul 27 15:57:19 BST 2000:

I heard it was me Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mememe on Thu Jul 27 20:29:20 BST 2000:

Alan Titchmarsh?
Angus Deyton?
John Gielgud? (Is he? Oh, right...)
Christopher Lee?
Gary Kasparov?
Ken Dodd?
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgh! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Jul 28 11:48:21 BST 2000:

Iain Lee. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mervyn Haisman on Fri Jul 28 12:46:50 BST 2000:

The Corpses. As long as it doesn't attract a 'pleb' audience, that is. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By subbes on Sun Jul 30 01:27:32 BST 2000:

Harry Hill. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Gimlet on Sun Jul 30 18:47:18 BST 2000:

Gene Wilder Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By subbes on Sun Jul 30 23:23:07 BST 2000:

Jarvis Cocker. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By george on Thu Aug 3 20:36:02 BST 2000:

>>>Jarvis Cocker.

Now there's an idea, he travels back to the year 2000 to see if Deborah turns up at the fountain down the road...... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Cockusoap on Fri Aug 4 00:28:51 BST 2000:

How about Jeremy Spake?
Ray Bowyer?

First female Dr? Eileen Downey. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mogwai on Fri Aug 4 08:40:20 BST 2000:

>Gene Wilder

Christ, of course! Whether or not you suggested him facetiously, the man would be perfect. Anyone got his agent's number...? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Aug 4 13:10:23 BST 2000:

Richard Madeley Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Aug 4 14:20:55 BST 2000:

Sylvester McCoy?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Gimlet on Sat Aug 5 20:47:27 BST 2000:

No Mogwai I wasnt being sarky.I love Gene Wilder and if the Yanks do get their hands on Who, than I think he would be perfect,although I hear hes very ill at the moment.Good health to him .
An underrated actor Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Aug 6 04:46:22 BST 2000:

'Bonnie & Clyde' being a great example. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Aug 6 14:20:22 BST 2000:

Neil Hannon. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Anonymous on Sun Aug 6 17:48:52 BST 2000:

(name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) (name removed) and (name removed) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sun Aug 6 22:22:28 BST 2000:

What about the guy who plays Giles in 'Buffy'? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Aug 6 22:26:35 BST 2000:

Anthony Head?

Could do.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Tue Aug 8 12:34:41 BST 2000:

Zucchero Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Aug 8 12:41:06 BST 2000:

Liza Tarbuck. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Peter Ohanraohanrahan on Wed Aug 9 09:07:58 BST 2000:

Woody Allen.

Oh my Gad... It's the Daleks... don't make me leave the Tardis, I have allergies... I had a bad experience with a Dalek when I was a kid... he told me I'd never graduate... oh gee... I wonder what they look like underneath? Would it be too forward to lift one up and have a look? How do you tell whether its a female... Oh my Gad, here I am becoming sexually obsessed by an alien cyborg race... look at me, I'm getting a rash! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Wed Aug 9 18:55:08 BST 2000:

>Woody Allen.
>
>Oh my Gad... It's the Daleks... don't make me leave the Tardis, I have allergies... I had a bad experience with a Dalek when I was a kid... he told me I'd never graduate... oh gee... I wonder what they look like underneath? Would it be too forward to lift one up and have a look? How do you tell whether its a female... Oh my Gad, here I am becoming sexually obsessed by an alien cyborg race... look at me, I'm getting a rash!

This is frighteningly real.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Justin on Wed Aug 9 23:31:34 BST 2000:

>Woody Allen.
>
>Oh my Gad... It's the Daleks... don't make me leave the Tardis, I have allergies... I had a bad experience with a Dalek when I was a kid... he told me I'd never graduate... oh gee... I wonder what they look like underneath? Would it be too forward to lift one up and have a look? How do you tell whether its a female... Oh my Gad, here I am becoming sexually obsessed by an alien cyborg race... look at me, I'm getting a rash!


Thing is - I'd watch that.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Justin on Wed Aug 9 23:34:57 BST 2000:

Jerry Seinfeld

*exterior shot of TARDIS, accompanied by jazzy electric bass which would put some people off right away*

"I mean, what is the deal with the Cybermen...?"

etc Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Thu Aug 10 02:16:52 BST 2000:

>Jerry Seinfeld
>
>*exterior shot of TARDIS, accompanied by jazzy electric bass which would put some people off right away*
>
>"I mean, what is the deal with the Cybermen...?"
>
>etc

"Doctor. It's Adric. i got nothing to say."
"I mean who's not gonna love a jellybaby. It's small. It's sugary. It's sugary. it's delicious!"

Actually, Kramer as the Doctor. Hmmm...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 10 13:58:32 BST 2000:

David Hyde Pierce as The Doctor.

Jane Leeves as the assistant... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 10 14:34:23 BST 2000:

Liza Tarbuck - I agree.


It's about time we had a good looking female Doctor... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 10 14:38:15 BST 2000:

Yep, she'd be excellent.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Thu Aug 10 15:43:58 BST 2000:

If there are any Doctor Who fans about on this website, it's still not too late to send in your agonising death-throes to Dan Freedman, the producer of the Radio 4 Dr Who pilot - DEATH COMES TO TIME. Details in the magazine. Even if it doesn't get commissioned it's still a chance to be included in the episode and be part of Dr Who folklore. That'll get your scarf a-quivering...

Nev Fountain (script editor).
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 10 17:33:38 BST 2000:

Hmm yes.

I read that in DWM and thought 'What the hell's the bloody point?'.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Aug 10 19:14:56 BST 2000:

Remember when everyone (well, a handful) bandied together to SUE the BBC for not re-commissioning the show, breaking some vague civil liberties along the way?

Missing the point of everything. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Thu Aug 10 19:18:15 BST 2000:

>If there are any Doctor Who fans about on this website, it's still not too late to send in your agonising death-throes to Dan Freedman, the producer of the Radio 4 Dr Who pilot - DEATH COMES TO TIME.

What is this about? Do tell!

On another note - I bought 'The 5 Doctors' DVD - very good especially the stereo soundtrack (which would have been 5.1 if I had the equipment) and the improved special effects, but I must ask - Why did Tom Baker not take part? I gather the footage of him in it was taken from an unfinished episode, "Shada". Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Aug 10 19:35:26 BST 2000:

He didn't want to appear in 'Five Doctors', so you get a Douglas Adams casualty instead. Which was nice at the time, but the seperate video release I'd point you to if you're really interested.

Isn't this new radio show the one Paul McGann has signed to? Sorry, don't read DWM.

And it must be days away before the BBc decide on giving the go ahead to another US co-production. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 10 20:31:10 BST 2000:

>Remember when everyone (well, a handful) bandied together to SUE the BBC for not re-commissioning the show, breaking some vague civil liberties along the way?
>
>Missing the point of everything.


Yes I do... "Operation Who" it was called, although even that wasn't as funny as when fans attempted to jam the BBC switchboard in an attempt to force them to bring the series back. Yes, that's right, if we irritate them, then they'll make some more...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Peter Ohanraohanrahan on Thu Aug 10 20:46:29 BST 2000:

>>Woody Allen.
>>
>>Oh my Gad... It's the Daleks... don't make me leave the Tardis, I have allergies... I had a bad experience with a Dalek when I was a kid... he told me I'd never graduate... oh gee... I wonder what they look like underneath? Would it be too forward to lift one up and have a look? How do you tell whether its a female... Oh my Gad, here I am becoming sexually obsessed by an alien cyborg race... look at me, I'm getting a rash!
>
>
>Thing is - I'd watch that.

Yeah me too. I think I could watch him talk bollocks about anything. How about "Only Jews and Horses"? The Corpses would like that wouldn't they? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 10 21:16:26 BST 2000:

The new radio play thing looks a right mess.

Stephen Fry is in it, but not as The Doctor, Sylvester McCoy and Sophie Aldred are back as the 'regulars'.

According to Gary Gillatt, it's a bit rubbish.

And The Five Doctors DVD is quite good, but no extras. Thankfully, BBC Video have seen sense and decided to arrange plenty of extras for future releases (Robots of Death in November has a commentary by Philip Hinchcliffe (producer) and Chris Boucher (writer), no less). Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Aug 11 12:10:53 BST 2000:

I think Gian Sammarco, if he can be found, would be perfect as the next Dr Who.

Or Alex Langdon. But no one who used to be in "Your Mother Wouldn't Like It" or "Palace Hill". Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Aug 11 12:29:12 BST 2000:

"Colin Baker was a great Doctor but he wasn't given a chance. Being leader of the Conservative Party may, in some small way, make up for this" MWE 1990 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Aug 11 12:33:05 BST 2000:

>"Colin Baker was a great Doctor but he wasn't given a chance. Being leader of the Conservative Party may, in some small way, make up for this"

Was he the only one to be sacked?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 11 12:38:38 BST 2000:

Yes he was, although very strong rumours had it that the BBC tried to prevent Amblin from using McCoy in the yankified version... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 11 12:39:11 BST 2000:

The New Doctor - Chris Needham Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 11 13:37:08 BST 2000:

Who? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Aug 11 13:50:32 BST 2000:

>Yes he was, although very strong rumours had it that the BBC tried to prevent Amblin from using McCoy in the yankified version...

Why? You have to have the regeneration!

Did anyone else notice that the regeneration happened at exactly 30 minutes into the 90 minute programme? They could have easily made it three episodes, using the 1987 titles for the first episode (with McCoy's face) and the other two with the new titles (which would have been better without the credits (I mean, really, on Doctor Who!) and with McGann's face. And it would have been even better if it hadn't been made by the Yanks but by the BBC.

I read once in a Doctor Who magazine (in a newsagents - I don't buy the thing) a 'what if' scenario with Richard Griffiths as the Eighth doctor. They even did a mock up of the opening titles with his face.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 11 13:53:03 BST 2000:

Is this in the cut or uncut version? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 11 13:57:19 BST 2000:

Oh yes.

That 'What if...?' feature was excellent.

Richard Griffiths, Julia Sawalha, full season layouts.

Great. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 11 14:13:58 BST 2000:

Yeah, but what if they _had_ cast TV's Mr Pastry Richard Hearne instead of Tom Baker?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 11 14:15:44 BST 2000:

Well...the feature was about season 27...if there had been one.

Pie-man would have taken over from McCoy. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Fri Aug 11 14:41:00 BST 2000:

Re; John!

I'm fascinated to hear Gary Gillat's opinion of a show that hasn't even been recorded yet,
maybe you should wait and hear it first? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 11 15:38:56 BST 2000:

Well, holding opinions on things they haven't actually seen or heard will be nothing new to Doctor Who fans...

Take 'The Savages' for example. So many people go on about how good it is, but (obviously) no-one's ever seen the bloody thing! In fact, there's so little evidence of its existence, that I'm beginning to think that the whole story is a hoax... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 11 15:43:07 BST 2000:

And telling you Gary Gillatt's opinion is wrong why?

It's not what I think, after all.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Anonymous on Fri Aug 11 15:50:10 BST 2000:

Apologies for the confusion. The two statements I made were unconnected, one referring to your (supposed) news that Gary thought it was pants, the other to your opinion that 'looks a right mess'. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 11 15:52:45 BST 2000:

Aww, this is real sweet! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Anonymous on Sat Aug 12 16:47:20 BST 2000:

answer the comment. dont just change the subject. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Aug 12 18:12:10 BST 2000:

Lighten up, Rolf! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Tue Aug 15 15:26:07 BST 2000:

That last one(answer the question) wasn't me...Some anonymous imposter is trying to pass himself off as nobody.

I was anonymous by mistake the last time. It was my either my inner lack of character trying to free itself or me pressing return too early.

All further posting will be Nev-related. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Aug 15 20:24:38 BST 2000:

Oh right.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Aug 16 12:19:58 BST 2000:

>They could have easily made it three episodes, using the 1987 titles for the first episode (with McCoy's face) and the other two with the new titles (which would have been better without the credits (I mean, really, on Doctor Who!) and with McGann's face. And it would have been even better if it hadn't been made by the Yanks but by the BBC.

However crap the McGann movie may have been (though not McGann's performance) - the Radio Times published my letter at the time describing the film as "an unmitigated stream of puke and excrement" - at least they tried to be brave and make it different to what had gone before. So using the 1987 titles would have been kiss of death (especially with that revolting tinny music - was Keff McCulloch sleeping with JNT or what? How else can you explain away the sudden ditching of those fab Radiophonic Workshop composers like Roger Limb, Paddy Kingsland etc?)

Unfortunately, they made it too different. Instead of having two extremes like "The War Games" versus "The Deadly Assassin", or "The Green Death" versus "Pyramids of Mars", all of which are great despite being poles apart, we have two extremes like "Dr Who" versus "The X Files meets Star Trek meets Chips".... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Wed Aug 16 14:42:43 BST 2000:

Didn't Keff "ding dang dur!" McCulloch write 'The Birdie Song'?

Even if that's a myth, it adds up. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Wed Aug 16 14:52:20 BST 2000:

>So using the 1987 titles would have been kiss of death (especially with that revolting tinny music - was Keff McCulloch sleeping with JNT or what?

I quite liked the 87 titles when I saw them on UK Gold Recently, but that changed when I saw the Davison/ColinBaker titles.

Hearing the stereo mix of the 81 titles on 'The Five Doctors' was absolutely brilliant.

>
>Unfortunately, they made it too different.

Yeah - I think they made it too polished. The interior of the Tardis was, well, different! And the music was far too grand!

I wonder if and when they have a new Doctor, will they have the regeneration scenes with McGann? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Aug 16 15:21:38 BST 2000:

>I quite liked the 87 titles when I saw them on UK Gold Recently, but that changed when I saw the Davison/ColinBaker titles.

I still think the 1980 Tom Baker titles were best of all - instead of having that '74 cross-eyed look, Baker had a wonderful enigmatic stare, and the Howell theme is just tops!! I've always particularly like the slow-woosh star-trail effect he has as Baker's face flies past the camera, just before the logo starts to form from stars...

>>Unfortunately, they made it too different.
>
>Yeah - I think they made it too polished. The interior of the Tardis was, well, different! And the music was far too grand!

The music, design and casting were the best aspects of that film for me. I really liked the re-interpretation of the console room, though the concept of having the gateway to the Eye of Harmony in the cloister room was a bit much. Frankly, what I disliked most was the plot - tedious, too drastic a rewrite of history, and badly scripted.

I simply cannot stand whimsical lines stuffed full of jargon, or shoe-horned continuity references that make the Doctor out to be some kind of magician or know-all. Despite his omniscient, larger than life personality, even Tom Baker's Doctor still had moments of ignorance, having to discover new things. The reason I hated McCoy so much was that his Doctor knew everything, was or had been everyone (Merlin etc.) and he may as well have started wearing a t-shirt saying, "Been there, done that"...
Would have been better than that horrific costume, and I thought Colin Baker's was bad.

>I wonder if and when they have a new Doctor, will they have the regeneration scenes with McGann?

Hope so - wouldn't mind seeing McGann back as the Doctor for a while first though - he himself says he knew on signing up that it would be a job for life, BUT NOT in some dodgy fan-produced thing, CD or otherwise... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 16 15:48:54 BST 2000:

Did any of you lot try writing and submitting Who scripts when you were younger?

I wrote a really great storyline called 'Kraken' (nicked from a John Wyndham novel, admittedly) about the Zygons attacking an ocean liner in the 1920s. A bit derivative of "Carnival Of Monsters" as well, I recall.

My stories were great because I always put old enemies in them, usually getting revealed at the end of episode 1. Shame I had to wait half a year for the rejection letters. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Wed Aug 16 15:56:02 BST 2000:

>I still think the 1980 Tom Baker titles were best of all.

Consider me a luddite, but I've always had a heart tug for the original sequence. There was a great DWB article explaining their creation in 1993/94.

Still, anything beats the later Pertwee sequence. Th time space continuum was in the *shape* of Jon Pertwee, lest we forget.

Also, re:Jon's script. Did nothing happen in the third episode, with a rubbish cliffhanger to round it all off? That would have guaranteed an acceptance.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Aug 16 16:19:08 BST 2000:

Anything beats the later Pertwee sequence. Th time space continuum was in the *shape* of Jon Pertwee, lest we forget.

You're not kidding - with the perm and the limp wristed pose, zooming off down the time corridor, he looked like a demented granny! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Wed Aug 16 22:16:13 BST 2000:

Oooh, yes. The 1980 - 1985 version of the theme tune is still my favourite of them all. Unfortunately, it made way for that travesty on The Trial of a Time Lord. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Wed Aug 16 22:48:08 BST 2000:

Personally the best ever theme tune was the 1980's disco mix by Mankind.

'Hey, who's that groovy cat over there cutting a rug in that huge scarf?'

'It's a doctor who fan.'

'Groovy man! I wish I was as cool and trendy as a Dr Who fan.'

Or did that all happen in my head?

(P.S Then Ska came along and spoiled it for us. Grrr. Gnash.) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Aug 17 03:15:57 BST 2000:

>You're not kidding - with the perm and the limp wristed pose, zooming off down the time corridor, he looked like a demented granny!

If you've got 'Planet of the Spiders' to hand, go and hunt out the scene where Pertwee minces down a corridor. Class viewing.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 08:11:06 BST 2000:

I heard that with 'Planet Of The Spiders', the spider models had to be redesigned because the originals were so life-like they would have terrified extreme arachnophobes.

Mind you, that could just be some bullshit story to cover for special-effects dept. incompetence. I mean, have you seen "Ark In Space"? I don't know how you can talk about DW special effects with a straight face. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Thu Aug 17 08:48:31 BST 2000:

>Oooh, yes. The 1980 - 1985 version of the theme tune is still my favourite of them all. Unfortunately, it made way for that travesty on The Trial of a Time Lord.

Okay - I'm confused - I thought there was only one version of the titles for each Doctor. Certainly only one of each is shown here:

http://www.tv-ark.co.uk/sci-fi.html

How many were there.



Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 10:10:41 BST 2000:

There were 2 for T.Baker, the 2nd of which was basically the same for the next 2 doctors. Then they did that rubbish sequence for McCoy. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 17 10:40:35 BST 2000:

One for Hartnell, two for Troughton (well, ok, one was the Hartnell one continuing for a bit), two for Pertwee, two for Tom Baker, one for Davison, one for Colin Baker, one for McCoy.

Please don't ask me to list all the different arrangements of the theme tune... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 17 10:57:07 BST 2000:

>Please don't ask me to list all the different arrangements of the theme tune...

This is very, very basic:

1963-6 - original titles theme, arr Delia Derbyshire
1967-9 - new opening titles theme, arr Delia Derbyshire
1970-9 - new shortened titles theme, plus "scream" added to start of closing titles around 1970 for season 8, and a stutter start to opening titles that was dropped after season 10, arr Derlia Derbyshire; three different edits of closing titles music commissioned by producer Barry Letts running at 40', 50' and 1'16" (that's from memory, I can't be certain - but they never ever used the 40' edit)
1980-5 - new opening/closing titles theme, arr Peter Howell
1986 - new opening/closing titles theme, arr Dominic Glynn (Trial season only)
1987-9 - new opening/closing titles, arr Keff McCulloch
1996 - new theme for movie, I've no idea who arranged it
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 17 11:06:35 BST 2000:

Well, it's not actually *that* basic - I know plenty of lifelong fans who couldn't name them all - but I see your point... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 17 11:53:31 BST 2000:

I'm a lifelong fan, but I'm buggered if I can remember who did all the different versions of the theme tune.

Mind you, I suppose all I have to do is reach for any one of a number of DW factual books.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 17 12:14:39 BST 2000:

Ah, but which one?

The L'Officier Programme Guide, A Celebration, Lance Parkin's Chronology, The Unfolding Text, Paul Cornell's World Of Biscuits, Classic Who: The Goronwy Years, The Technical Manual, Build The Tardis, A Day In The Life Of A Television Producer, The Unauthorized Guide To Meglos, or Learn To Hang-Glide With Doctor Who by A. Big Prat? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 12:39:44 BST 2000:

Is it true that Gallifrey is the name of a place in Ireland? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 17 12:41:26 BST 2000:

I'm not sure, but the best DW book is The Completely Useless Encyclopedia by Steve Lyons and Chris Howarth. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 17 12:52:32 BST 2000:

Completely Useless Encyclopedia is brilliant, and I'm not just saying that because I know Steve. It's an exceptionally funny work.

If you like that, have you ever read Faze? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Thu Aug 17 13:24:49 BST 2000:

>Is it true that Gallifrey is the name of a place in Ireland?

Not as far as I know, and not according to http://www.cwlease.com/cwlint/index2.htm

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 17 13:52:31 BST 2000:

>Ah, but which one?
>
>The L'Officier Programme Guide, A Celebration, Lance Parkin's Chronology, The Unfolding Text, Paul Cornell's World Of Biscuits, Classic Who: The Goronwy Years, The Technical Manual, Build The Tardis, A Day In The Life Of A Television Producer, The Unauthorized Guide To Meglos, or Learn To Hang-Glide With Doctor Who by A. Big Prat?

Anyone ever seen The Dr Who Recipe Book? My mum was in the local public library a few weeks ago, borrowing some reference books for my younger sister who's doing 2nd year home economics, and she came across it! She borrowed it as a laugh to show me when I was last visiting. It's full of cartoons of JNT stuffing his face, tickling Davison with a celery stick and serenading his PA...

Basically, loads of Who *celebrities*, and people who had recently shagged JNT, submitted their favourite recipes. "Brigadier's Borscht" from Nick Courtney, "Mena's Tachyonic Sauce" from Adrienne Corri, "One-Eyed Gunslinger's Gespatcho" from Laurence Payne, "Adric's Bent Banana Daquiri" from Matthew Waterhouse etc.

All absolute TV tie-in bobbins!

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 17 13:55:24 BST 2000:

Yeah, I remember that, and the Knitting Pattern book was pretty dire too, but none as truly ludicrous as... BUILD THE TARDIS!

I used to wonder which fan would be the sadder one - someone who bought it to keep while its rarity value increased, or someone who actually tried to make it. Then I realised it would be the person who bought two and did both. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 17 14:09:52 BST 2000:

>Yeah, I remember that, and the Knitting Pattern book was pretty dire too, but none as truly ludicrous as... BUILD THE TARDIS!
>
>I used to wonder which fan would be the sadder one - someone who bought it to keep while its rarity value increased, or someone who actually tried to make it. Then I realised it would be the person who bought two and did both.

You think that's sad? Back in about 1986, Golden Wonder crisps did a tie-in with the BBC and Marvel, so that you could buy certain crisps eg. wotsits, with a miniature, colourised Marvel Who comic strip inside (one of those rather good John Ridgway strips with Colin Baker and the talking penguin), wrapped in plastic, while the crisp packaging had Colin Baker's illustration on the side.

I have a good friend who bought up loads of these, had a set to open/eat/read the comic, but kept several others unopened. He kept them for about twelve years and then sold them to another collector for an absolute fortune. I dread to think how those wotsits - cheesy enough in 1986 - must have stank after twelve years...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 14:25:02 BST 2000:

But did any of you get Terry Nation's Dalek Book?

I did, for Xmas in the late 70s. But when I tried to make the model Dalek using the design inside, it was always rubbish. My brother made some brilliant ones, and he created a Davros one as well, and had a model of Davros' bunker, though he sacrificed strict accuracy by having red, black, blue daleks, who didn't exist in the original 'Genesis' story. Subject: Dalek Chronology
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 14:30:00 BST 2000:

Thanks to the Terry Nation, me and my brother worked out the chronoly of Dalek stories up to that time ('Destiny'). I think it went like this:

1. Genesis Of The Daleks
2. The Dead Planet
3. Power Of The Daleks
4. Death To The Daleks
5. Dalek Invasion Of Earth
6. The Chase
7. Day Of The Daleks
8. The Dalek MasterPlan
9. Planet Of the Daleks
10. Destiny Of The Daleks
11. Evil Of The Daleks

...because the Daleks are destroyed in 'Evil', so it must be the last one in history, although the Dr encounters them at other times in his life. He's a time traveller, so he can do that.

Er, anyway, all this DW stuff reminded me, that's all... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 17 15:38:02 BST 2000:

>Er, anyway, all this DW stuff reminded me, that's all...

Thanks for that - by the way, apart from the useless "how to make a Dalek" plans (which are equally inaccurate in the Radio Times Special 1973) the other thing about Terry Nation's Dalek Special (1979 I think) is that every copy I've ever seems to have been bound in a very inferior manner. The adhesive that holds the pages onto the spine dries out, and basically the pages fall out within two readings.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 17 15:44:11 BST 2000:

Yes, that's exactly right... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 17 20:18:38 BST 2000:

I've never read Faze, I'm sorry to say. If it's anything like TCUE then I'd love it, I'm sure. It's the one DW book I keep on picking up and reading more than any other (indeed, all the rest are in boxes under my bed).

Where do Steve Lyons and Chris Howarth live now? Is it still in/near Manchester? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 17 20:18:50 BST 2000:

I've never read Faze, I'm sorry to say. If it's anything like TCUE then I'd love it, I'm sure. It's the one DW book I keep on picking up and reading more than any other (indeed, all the rest are in boxes under my bed).

Where do Steve Lyons and Chris Howarth live now? Is it still in/near Manchester? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Aug 18 00:45:21 BST 2000:

I'd stick up for the 'Useless' book. The worst is easily 'Universal Databank' which genuinely frightened me.

I'll buy any DW book which actually goes into picture research and archive hunts. When good, they bother to explain the show and bring scattered material together. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Fri Aug 18 01:43:58 BST 2000:

>I'd stick up for the 'Useless' book.
Me too!
>
>I'll buy any DW book which actually goes into picture research and archive hunts. When good, they bother to explain the show and bring scattered material together.
'The Sixties' is very good in this regard, as is the first Haining book (A Celebration?). Just bought 'The Television Companion' and found it excellent also.

I too bought Terry Nation's Dalek book. and yea verily, all the pages fell out. I have a Doctor Who and the Daleks Omnibus from the 70s which also has some Nation stuff in it about Skaro, its environs, and Dalek biology etc.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Aug 18 07:54:26 BST 2000:

But do you agree with the Daleks chronology? I have now remembered the reasoning behind it and it's really clever. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 09:54:19 BST 2000:

Gary Gillatt's A-Z was also rather excellent.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Aug 18 10:17:36 BST 2000:

>There were 2 for T.Baker, the 2nd of which was basically the same for the next 2 doctors. Then they did that rubbish sequence for McCoy.

Are there any videos available with these titles on it? I don't know if I have ever seen the second set of Tom Baker titles.

Another point - what were the titles in the 'Trial' season like? My memory is very hazy from this period - I was just kid at the time. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 10:51:31 BST 2000:

There are plenty of videos with the latter Tom Baker titles on. In fact, I think the only story from that season that isn't available is Meglos. It's basically the same as it is for Peter Davison, but obviously with Tom's face. And it's not quite as 'bright'.

The Leisure Hive, The E-Space Trilogy Box Set and The Keeper of Traken are all out there somewhere (Logopolis has been deleted from the range).

As for Trial, it's the same visual sequence as the rest of Colin Baker's stuff, but the music is a rather tinny, cheap sounding affair, like it was done on a £9.99 miniature keyboard.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 12:16:24 BST 2000:

Dalek Special - yes, all the pages fel lout of mine too. As they did out of "K9 And His Mechanical Chums" or whatever it was called.

Television Companion - I know of at least three people (namely myself, John Connors and Daniel Adams) whose ancient and archaic fanzine articles are quoted in it, and who are none too happy about it.

Gary Gillatt A-Z - very good. "The Sixties" was the best book ever in my opinion. It actually read like a proper piece of literary work rather than just a Doctor Who book.

Faze - http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/
The "Vworp Vworp" page is highly recommended, as is the Telesnap Chive.

Sad collectors - I've always wondered what happens when those people who've been storing Dalek ice lollies since the 1960s have a power cut? What would they make with all the sticks???

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 13:11:40 BST 2000:

>I've always wondered what happens when those people who've been storing Dalek ice lollies since the 1960s have a power cut? What would they make with all the sticks???

A realistic replica of the season 14 TARDIS console room? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 13:14:01 BST 2000:

Yeah, but for real added authenticity, the walls would need to warp when they were put into storage. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Aug 18 13:23:05 BST 2000:

"Logopolis has been deleted from the range"

Why? It's one of the best ever stories? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 13:56:01 BST 2000:

It's just a BBC thing.

They deleted a load of the old videos from the range.

They'll obviously re-release them, with shiny new packaging, once they've exhausted their supply of unreleased stories.

Which will be soon, I think. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 13:59:53 BST 2000:

Surely they're running out of stories to release by now?

What next - "Search Out Science" or that thing with Megron??? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 14:08:40 BST 2000:

>"Logopolis has been deleted from the range"
>
>Why? It's one of the best ever stories?

Just as well BBC Video's parent company is now BBC Worldwide, instead of its old name BBC Enterprises. Over 14years, they've consistently proved themselves to be the least enterprising people you could imagine.

In answer to your question, when the McGann movie came out, the Beeb rebranded Who with that jazzy Pertwee style logo instead of the Baker diamond logo, and relaunched the video range with "The Leisure Hive" - deleting all previous releases. I guess their intention was to re-issue them uncut with new sleeves in the photo-montage/rebrand house style.

Instead, their once bi-monthly issue schedule has now become quad-monthly (?) and all those great old releases are becoming more and more scarce. I didn't buy "Destiny of the Daleks" when it came out, and I can't replace my now knackered "Robot" and "Logopolis", and I'm kicking myself. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 14:13:31 BST 2000:

I always hated the diamond logo.


"Not worthy of the series", if you ask me. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 14:16:15 BST 2000:

>>"Logopolis has been deleted from the range"
>>
>>Why? It's one of the best ever stories?


Sorry guys, in the time you took to pop up your replies, my latest dissertation seems as if I've not been paying attention and repeated all you've said...
Philosophically, Logopolis should BE THERE NOW, on the shelves! Picking up on that beautiful Shakespearian tragic doom building up through "Traken", "Logopolis" is just the most wonderful experience ever - apart from the bit in part one where Adric & The Doc suddenly go out of sync with that exchange beginning "Why? Who's looking for us now, you've disposed of the Master?"
The only other thing that lets it down is the bit near the end of part 4 where Anthony "Dick Dastardly" Ainley taps new co-ordinates into the Top of the Pops set, sorry, I mean the radio telescope, causing it to rotate and send Tom Baker to his death. The stabbing fingers, the moustache twirling chuckle...

I still choke as I see the world-weary Baker's last moments. "Only while that cable holds...." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 14:19:13 BST 2000:

>I always hated the diamond logo.

Mmn, take your point - personally, I like the diamond logo as seen on TV ie. the icy blue diamond shooting down the time corridor. The multi-coloured swap shop version that started life as a badge you could buy at Longleat, and went on to become the marketing face of BBC video, is a little too gaudy I must admit....
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 14:20:42 BST 2000:

Indeed. Logopolis, and perhaps more so Castrovalva, remain two of my favourite ever stories.

In fact, Castrovalva was my first ever Who video. How lovely. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 14:20:48 BST 2000:

The multi-coloured swap shop version


What a fantastic description! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 14:24:00 BST 2000:

This topic is very busy today.

I agree about the hideous diamond logo. I was pleased when DWM changed it to the Pertwee/TV Movie version. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 14:27:56 BST 2000:

>In fact, Castrovalva was my first ever Who video. How lovely.

I've always had a love/hate thing with Castrovalva, but I love the bit in part one where the kids rescue the Doc from the Pharos Project - that funky bit of Paddy Kingsland music where Tegan's driving the ambulance across the field, and goes "get the Doctor, quick!"

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 14:29:46 BST 2000:

I think Castrovalva is just stunningly great. A wonderful script by Bidmead, and brilliant acting (as always) by Davison.

Definitely the best first story for a Doctor ever, in my opinion. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 14:43:46 BST 2000:

I just want the thing with Megron to be released.

Or maybe the BBC could negotiate with me for a CD release of "Mental Disorders: A Day In The Life Of A Typical Doctor Who Fan"... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 14:49:29 BST 2000:

Absolutely.

They could run it to a double CD pack, I'm sure. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 14:56:49 BST 2000:

In case anyone was wondering... "Mental Disorders" was a spoof documentary about a day in the life of a typical Doctor Who fan, produced by the same people who were behind such fan-insulting fanzines as "Specious Claptrap" and "Do No Watch This Programme". It was wildly offensive to fans and Russell Enoch alike, was played at a couple of conventions, and then consigned to a dusty shelf. In my bedroom.

If anyone wants, I'll transcribe highlights from it and put them in this thread... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 14:57:41 BST 2000:

>I think Castrovalva is just stunningly great. A wonderful script by Bidmead, and brilliant acting (as always) by Davison.
>
>Definitely the best first story for a Doctor ever, in my opinion.

You're right of course, a very good first story - although of course I haven't seen Power of the Daleks and fans of a certain age swear that it's the best one ever - who will ever know? Maybe it'll be re-discovered one day and we'll see how, like Tomb of the Cybermen, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Ainley's Portreeve is too cheesy by half, and his Master weakens the finale of Castrovalva. Michael Sheard is excellent in the supporting cast... Love the cliffhanger of part three, that nightmarish M C Escher vision

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 15:02:37 BST 2000:

>If anyone wants, I'll transcribe highlights from it and put them in this thread...

Oh please do - and can I get hold of a copy from you? In return, I'll send you a documentary I made about that "Blue Box" Dr Who convention in Bournemouth - we followed two fans, one who dressed as the Master, and one who dressed as Davison and spoke with a lisp. We filmed some highly amusing actuality. We also interviewed Colin Baker, Lis Sladen, Debbie Watling and have great footage of Peter Miles singing Frank Sinatra. The voice-over is by my mate at uni Rick Prosser, better known to you Big Breakfast fans as... Rick Adams.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 15:06:53 BST 2000:

Ainley was always a bit...over the top. It wasn't until Survival that he really got the chance to shine. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 18 15:16:08 BST 2000:

Sure... if you want a copy, email me through http://www.bluejam20.freeserve.co.uk/


And now, an extract! The documentary is currently outside a run-down provincial theatre, where our subject is waiting to catch a glimpse of Russell Enoch as he leaves the building after the night's performance...

INTERVIEWER: This that him?

CRISPIN: I don't know... excuse me, Mr Enoch?

ENOCH: (angry) WHO SAID THAT??? Oh hello,, who are you?

CRISPIN: I'm Crispin Harcourt-Brown, your greatest fan.

ENOCH: Well, isn't that nice. What did you say my name was again?

CRISPIN: Russell Enoch, Mr. Enoch.

ENOCH: Oh, that's right. (angry) WHO TOLD YOU?

CRISPIN: Tell me...

ENOCH: Well, it was all quite marvellous really... Billy would bring a pie, Verity would bring a salad, and, erm, Billy would bring a pie. I think we all realised that the Daleks were going to be popular, you know... when they became popular, that's right! I also remember having to go inside a huge matchbox in one story, but I can't remember if I was in that one or not. (weary) It was all live then, you know... apart from Billy of course. Goodbye!

CRISPIN: Oh he's gone. What a shame. I shall treasure that interview for always. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 15:28:46 BST 2000:

Fantastic! Have you ever seen "Barrington Black", the Reeltime pictures spoof of the only actor ever to have auditioned for the Doctor each time one of the others left - basically it's Stephen Mansfield (I think), animatronics expert, creator of Fifi from "The Happiness Patrol", impersonating Hartnell, Pertwee, Tom Baker and McCoy in scenes from "Dead Planet", "Spearhead", "Genesis" & "Fenric". Can't offer a transcript, I only vaguely remember seeing it at Panopticon '90. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Aug 18 16:55:32 BST 2000:

Anyone got an opinion on 'K9 and Company'? I watched it again the other week and laughed my arse off at Levine's theme tune. Possibly the worst title-sequence ever made.

And Terence Dudley wrote it! What on Earth went wrong? It's a very clumsy script, with loads of obvious red herrings throughout and people wearing cloaks and being mysterious.

Did they really believe it would take off? Brendan is obviously meant to be the Doctor substitute, which is a bit daft considering that K9 is meant to be central. Certainly it's the only show in the world to star a box.

I was always more curious about the UNIT spin-off, but the details are sketchy. Can anyone fill me in?

And am I the only person in the world who thinks the original cybermen (Tenth Planet) sound like ABBA? Thought so. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 16:58:51 BST 2000:

Speaking of Panopticon, I note it's moved from the Hotel Leofric in the gorgeous (or is that 'hideous'?) city of Coventry, for some place in Manchester.

And it's on just two weeks before I move there, meaning I'll miss it.

How topping! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 18 17:01:35 BST 2000:

K9 and Company, yes. I bought it a few years back off some market stall (I wouldn't have paid a lot for it even before seeing it).

I've watched it...hmmm...once in about 4 years.

#Doo-doo-doo-de-doo, doo-doo-doo-de-doo-de-doo...K9#

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Aug 18 17:25:55 BST 2000:

Pitch perfect, John! It obviously made a lasting impression. However, it's the tension building climax to the theme which is sadly impossible to transcribe. At least three squeaky synth parts!

Keff McCulloch sounds like Mark Anthony Turnage by comparison. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Aug 18 17:27:05 BST 2000:

>K9 and Company, yes. I've watched it...hmmm...once in about 4 years.
>
>#Doo-doo-doo-de-doo, doo-doo-doo-de-doo-de-doo...K9#

I sent those risible opening titles to TV-Ark a couple of months back - the link to the Dr Who titles in a comment earlier on this thread will take you to them. They're just fabulous, quite stunning in their clever use of crash zooms and cut-down zooms, and very reminiscent of The Professionals..... not

Quite like the bit where K-9 accidentally brings down a greenhouse, with that wonderful ubiquitous "smashing glass" sound effect, and also the health inspector from "Basil the Rat", John Quarmby, trying to be mysterious. Bill Fraser's always good value, despite this terrible script. The show has the feel of a spooky "All Creatures Great and Small" rather than a sci-fi spin-off pilot, God knows what was going through their minds when they made it. I do hope Brendan-actor (Sean Barrett?) never went on to better things - I'm sure he'd hate to be reminded of that sacrificial scene 20 years on... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Aug 18 19:31:30 BST 2000:

?Sean Barrat? appeared twice in 'Nightingales' on C4. Great show which had an irregular guest role for Barrett as a werewolf, who changed into one at night. He was brilliant in that, but the voice hasn't changed at all. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Aug 19 11:43:05 BST 2000:

Blimey, 'Nightingales', I'd forgotten that. It must have been around 91/92? Robert Lindsay and Bert Parnaby were the main security guards, and the latter once had a great line explaining why he'd been in a police cell. Something like this...

"I went out for a walk this weekend in my new overcoat. But, as you know, my mind's been playing up recently, and I completely forgot to put on any clothes underneath. Now, as I was walking past a school, there was a sudden gust of wind. It wasn't my fault that my coat should suddenly blow wide open just as the kids were standing in front of me...." Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Aug 19 12:43:46 BST 2000:

Hmm, don't remember that at all.

Elisabeth Sladen. What's she doing now, apart from conventions? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Aug 19 14:04:07 BST 2000:

>Hmm, don't remember that at all.
>
>Elisabeth Sladen. What's she doing now, apart from conventions?

Nothing except raising a family ie. young Sadie, who gets taken to conventions as well, usually dressed in pink striped overalls like her mum did in "The Hand of Fear".

I tried to get Lis Sladen on "This Morning" once, when we had Peter Davison and Nick Courtney on for the 35th anniversary to be interviewed by Ross Kelly & Caron Keating. The series editor Nick Bullen had never heard of her and didn't want her on - he'd nevre heard of and didn't give a shit about Courtney either, I had to fight for him to be allowed on, on the basis that he'd appeared with every single Doctor on TV. (One has to lie horribly to achieve anything decent in TV these days) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Aug 19 14:32:06 BST 2000:

I remember that Peter Davison/Nick Courtney thing. Weren't they on a set with a few plastic moons hanging up?

And Nick forgot to give proper attention to his new book. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sat Aug 19 17:18:43 BST 2000:

Last word on 'Nightnigales'. It starred Robert Lindsay, David Threlfall and James Ellis. It was written by Steven Aikin, although I'm nowhere near a tape of it to check. Two series, 1991-92. All fantastic. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Aug 19 18:23:19 BST 2000:

What channel was it on? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sat Aug 19 19:07:47 BST 2000:

Channel 4. When it was any good. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Aug 19 19:15:12 BST 2000:

Hmm, yeah.

It's definitely seen a dip in its quality.

I can count the number of great programmes on Channel 4 on...erm...one finger.

Oh, and they don't even make it. Good old 4. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By subbes on Sat Aug 19 20:22:53 BST 2000:

> The voice-over is by my mate at uni Rick Prosser, better known to you Big Breakfast fans as... Rick Adams.


Simon Harries, i want to have your babies. Or at least your friends.

you know Rick Adams AND Bouff? Gah.
Gah gah gah.


*faints*

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Aug 20 02:14:09 BST 2000:

I remember Lee and Herring talking about appearing on The Big Breakfast, when they sat in on the Radcliffe show one night. They nicked Rick Adams' door sign and pondered whether the producers would bother going to get another. He was sacked a couple of months later. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Aug 20 14:46:30 BST 2000:

When's the Big Breakfast going to get cancelled then? What does it get, something like 400,000 viewers and endless presenter crises. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Aug 21 19:56:39 BST 2000:

>you know Rick Adams AND Bouff? Gah.
>Gah gah gah.
>
>
>*faints*

What on earth are you talking about??!! Who is "Bouff"?

By the way, Peter Davison made sure Nick Courtney got one mention of his book at the end - he made him hold it right up, and Ross Kelly was a little put out - he said something like, "If you mention your book any more, that Cyberman has orders to shoot you". There were lots of polystyrene moons (the set designer Emma Cooper works wonders on £1.50, much like those original Who designers!) and I hired in some Dr Who costumes from a fan in East London.

Rick wasn't sacked, he resigned. Yes, he was crap, but he was ill-suited to that particular gig, and he spent all his time covering for Sharon Whatserface, who was even more crap. He had a stomach ulcer by the time he'd resigned.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Aug 21 21:04:46 BST 2000:

Yes, that's right, I remember Peter Davison urging Nick to hold his book up, so to speak.

Did Tom Baker go on to promote his (excellent) autobiography?

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Tue Aug 22 00:32:22 BST 2000:

>He had a stomach ulcer by the time he'd resigned.

So how was he after doing links on the Children's Channel?

Onto Who, is there a list of what *has* been deleted from the BBC Video range?

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Tue Aug 22 01:36:56 BST 2000:

I think Black Star video lists them all, and has details of whether they're deleted or still available. Subject: Boring Point on the BB or maybe not?
Posted By David on Tue Aug 22 03:21:20 BST 2000:

According to Right to Reply, Channel 4 actually has to give Planet 24 TWELVE MONTHS notice to cancel The Big Breakfast! How did that get past the contract writers at C4? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Aug 22 17:07:00 BST 2000:

DWM published the deleted video list.

That was back in 1996, of course. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Tue Aug 22 21:33:46 BST 2000:

>Did Tom Baker go on to promote his (excellent) autobiography?

Yes. He went on twice, actually, once in 1992 during "Medics" - it's a fab interview, he tells the story about a cabbie confusing him with his predecessor, crowing "It's a pleasure to 'ave you in the cab, Mr Pertwee". Also, a Liverpool woman with huge lips who, having kissed the life of him, went and kissed the bonnet of an old car that was refusing to start further down the Albert Dock, and once she'd planted her lips on it, it roared into life!!
R+J interviewed him again in '97 about his autobiography. The researcher of that item, one Martin Harper, has become a mate since we worked together on the show, and he told me that he hired in a police box to have on the set, but Tom refused to step out of it at the start of the show, saying, "No, no, dear boy, that's a very old joke now..!"

Tom wouldn't come on in '98 with Ross + Caron. His agent told me, "he has an affection for Richard and Judy, but wouldn't come on for anyone else"...

We paid Peter Davison £350, and he was a pleasure to have on. Nick had no fee at all, but got to plug his panto (starring with Katrina from "Katrina and the Waves" at the Hackney Empire in 'Cinderella', I think) and - belatedly, at the end, his book.

Sylvester McCoy would have wanted even more than that (he's a cantankerous old bastard, you know) and refused to come on for less than £500, but I hate him and wouldn't have had him on even for £50!! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Aug 22 22:37:25 BST 2000:

I love that Tom Baker story about the cab/Mr Pertwee.

I'm surprised McCoy is a miserable sod. Oh well.

Any insider comments on the rest? And by the rest, I do, of course, mean Colin Baker.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Wed Aug 23 08:19:51 BST 2000:

I'm currently working with Sylv on the radio pilot, and I happen to think he's one of the nicest you would ever meet; generous, good-humoured and always willing to go that extra mile to help out

I'm not surprised he's a 'cantankerous old bastard' if that was your attitude toward him. It's very easy to be a hail-fellow-well-met when all around you think you're wonderful, and let's not forget that Tom was not always as sanguine and good-natured about Who, and that COB wouldn't have been an inapropriate term for Tom in the past, and if a sizeable proportion of fandom blamed him for killing the show, he'd probably still be.

It's very dangerous to assume someone's character from isolated incidents, particularly in the media. I've heard stories about Peter Davison, but I've only met him once, so i'm waiting to get to know him with an open mind. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Aug 23 23:50:59 BST 2000:

>I'm not surprised he's a 'cantankerous old bastard' if that was your attitude toward him.

My attitude towards Sylvester's agent was nothing other than polite and professional, I never got to speak to him, but was told that he had a very low opinion of the fee we were offering that Davison subsequently accepted... I agree that one shouldn't judge on isolated incidents, but my opinion is also coloured by an event that took place at a convention in the mid-nineties, while I was still just one of many appreciative fans as opposed to a cynic jaded by the media. I simply asked him if I could take his photograph by the TARDIS towards the end of a photocall. He looked at me as if I'd just insulted his mother and her mother before her. Maybe he'd been signing too many autographs and reached the end of his tether, or perhaps it was one photo request too many. He did pose in the end, but with such distaste, and with such a fixed, fake and menacing grimace, that he looks as if he's just been revived after a month underground. It's not my photography that's at fault... This has always coloured my perception somewhat, and I can't help trusting my instincts. Added to that the fact that I've never really liked his performance as the Doctor in the 80's, that's why I described him as a COB.

I've actually seen Tom Baker being a COB, and I too have heard stories about Davison that present him in a poor light. With very few exceptions (Nick Courtney is one) most actors are either precious old queens or cantankerous old bastards... Can't comment on Colin Baker though - anyone else have personal experience?

>I'm currently working with Sylv on the radio pilot, and I happen to think he's one of the nicest you would ever meet; generous, good-humoured and always willing to go that extra mile to help out

Well, yes, I'm sure he would for the chance to work with friends and colleagues on a revival of a show he probably loved. The fee probably also meets his high expectations. I'd do the same in such circumstances. I'm glad you're having fun though, and I'll look forward to hearing the pilot when it airs. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev Fountain on Thu Aug 24 08:02:46 BST 2000:

>The fee probably also meets his high expectations.

This is BBC RADIO!!!!

If any fee meets with any expectations, high or not, then someone's not doing their job properly!

Regards,

Nev.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Aug 24 12:29:27 BST 2000:

For the record...

Pertwee was very polite and considerate to me when I once cornered him outside Radio Merseyside, although I have to stress that some acquantances had less pleasant encounters with him.

Victor Pemberton was a top bloke who spent ages chatting to me about "Ace Of Wands"

Brian Croucher, amazingly, claimed convincingly to have read an article that I had written, and strongly encourages me to take up a career in writing.

Sophie Aldred is lovely.

Russell Enoch made little sense.

Ian Scoones bore a curious resemblance to a badger.

And even though he was never in Doctor Who, TV's Ed Bishop of "UFO" fame was by far the nicest celeb that I have ever met. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 24 16:59:23 BST 2000:

Can't say I've ever met a celebrity.

I once saw the Blakeney twins from Neighbours on the beach though. And Liz Dawn in the Post Office. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 24 19:53:02 BST 2000:

>Can't say I've ever met a celebrity.
>
>I once saw the Blakeney twins from Neighbours on the beach though. And Liz Dawn in the Post Office.

Absolutely the nicest, most genuine celeb I've ever met is John Mahoney, alias Martin Crane in Frasier. He was in the UK two years agoi for a play at the Barbican, a revival of an American farce, "The Man Who Came to Dinner" (which also featured that fab actress who plays Frasier's nasty agent, her name currently escapes me) presented by John Malkovich's company Steppenwolf.

He was on "This Morning" to plug it, and I was assigned to research him and look after him on the day because I'm a big fan of "Frasier". I had a great research chat with him on the phone - him Chicago, me London. The show turned out to be the 2000th edition. When he arrived, we offered him a dressing room - sanctuary from a green room full of puking babies, pouting slimmers, weeping human interest guests ( a man who had just been released from a 30 year prison sentence for a crime he never committed, introduced on the show to the daughter and granddaughters he never knew existed), and all the This Morning on-air "talent" (Chris, Denise, Raj, Charles, Susan etc) - and he said, "no, no, that's all fine, I'm really happy here".

He sat and watched the show, came on and did his interview, we had top clips, he told us all how he was brought up in Manchester, emigrated to the USA in the 50's when his older sister married a G.I. etc. and how he was looking forward to re-visiting Didsbury and other areas of his home city. Also, because of his British origins, the fact that "Frasier" script-writers have to avoid giving him the word "Wednesday", because he says it as a Brit rather than as a Yank (they stress the middle syllable differently)

Really, really lovely man. He even arranged for a big gang of us to go and see his play for nothing. I think John Mahoney is simply the greatest. (He'd be a good Dr Who....!) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Justin on Thu Aug 24 22:41:03 BST 2000:

Not surprised by that, Simon. Is JM the nemesis of Big Brother's cast, I wonder? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Aug 25 13:41:02 BST 2000:

<weeps>

You've met John Mahoney!

<dies of jealousy>

I think my idea of heaven would be to be in a room with the Frasier cast. They just seem so...lovely. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Sat Aug 26 23:02:30 BST 2000:

By the way - I've often wondered about the cause of the Doctors' regeneration - I know #1 was in a battle with Daleks and #7 was shot - but what about the rest? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Aug 27 00:10:53 BST 2000:

Number One: after a battle with the Cybermen;

Number Two: the Timelords forced a regeneration upon The Doctor and exiled him to Earth so he couldn't meddle;

Number Three: exposed to vast amounts of radiation after a fight with a load of giant spiders;

Number Four: fell from a great height from the Pharos Project radio telescope...merged with The Watcher, the future incarnation of himself;

Number Five: caught Spectrox Toxaemia and used the last of the cure on Peri, thereby sacrificing himself;

Number Six: erm...the TARDIS got hit and he fell over. Bonnie Langford was fine, but The Doctor was knacked. Perhaps he hit his head on the exercise bike;

Number Seven: yes, shot. Perhaps if he'd used the TARDIS scanner like he does on every other occasion he'd still be with us. Darn, eh?;

Number Eight: was last seen drinking a cup of tea, and getting agitated by his record player jumping a bit.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Aug 27 17:36:48 BST 2000:

Number Nine: shocked to death by a chance meeting with Vanessa Feltz

Number Ten: fell into a vat of boiling Dalekanium, respiratory bypass system unable to cope with noxious vapours and extreme temperatures, dragged out by companion Felicia using a nearby boat-hook, her kiss of life unable to resuscitate him...

Number Eleven: got pissed with Alastair Burnet during a trip to 80's London, run over by a taxi just off Great Portland Street...

Number Twelve: electrocuted whilst trying to convert a poorly-wired hairdryer into a neutron device to confound the Stane Devils on Arcturus

Number Thirteen: sacrificed his final incarnation to save his assistant Kathleen from being aged to death in a Tachyon Funnel; regressed back through all previous incarnations, younger and younger, until ending his life as a pool of Gallifreyan spunk sloshing around on the lens of his pince-nez... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Sun Aug 27 21:48:53 BST 2000:

>Number Thirteen: sacrificed his final incarnation to save his assistant Kathleen from being aged to death in a Tachyon Funnel;

Yes! Simon! You've got it! Send your ideas to the BBC or Universal or whoever and lets get a new series off the ground. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Aug 27 23:57:28 BST 2000:

Alas, a new series seems to be out of the question. A film, however, is very much 'on'. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Mon Aug 28 09:42:14 BST 2000:

>Number Two: the Timelords forced a regeneration upon The Doctor and exiled him to Earth so he couldn't meddle;

I watched 'Spearhead from Space' on UK Gold recently to see if it showed any of the regeneration. Unfortunately it didn't - this presumably happened in the final episode of the previous series. Given that the episode I watched showed Pertwee falling out of the Tardis - what actually happened? Was the physical regeneration shown?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Aug 28 10:04:48 BST 2000:

Given that 'Spearhead from Space' showed Pertwee falling out of the Tardis - what actually happened? Was the physical regeneration shown?
>
There was no regeneration per se, "The War Games" ended with The Doctor having an opportunity to choose his new appearance, from pictures displayed on a giant screen. He didn't like any of them (too old, too fat, too thin etc.)

The Time Lords took the decision for him. His own face appeared on the giant screen, as they commanded that the time had come for him to change his appearance and begin his exile. A special lens was used to show many images of the Doctor's face rotating around the one in the centre, as he screamed, "What's happening? Stop, you're making me giddy! Whoooo----aaaaaahhhhhhh".

The last image before the titles rolled was his body spinning into blackness, with his hands cupped over his face. The music in that sequence is quite spooky, it makes my spine tingle as I think of it. He really looks as if he's dying, and his body being jettisoned into space... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Mon Aug 28 11:29:26 BST 2000:

>The last image before the titles rolled was his body spinning into blackness, with his hands cupped over his face. The music in that sequence is quite spooky, it makes my spine tingle as I think of it. He really looks as if he's dying, and his body being jettisoned into space...

OO-er - nowadays of course, they would add that bit to the start of the next episode to remind viewers what had happened. Pity they didn't do that then.

The first regeneration I remember seeing was Davison->Baker. I was puzzled by the whole thing, though I wait expectantly for the new titles with Baker in them. My mum explained to me that there had been several Doctor Whos, including Jon Pertwee. 'What', I cried, 'Wurzel Gummidge! No, that can't br true!'

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Aug 28 16:02:11 BST 2000:

I quite like the Davison-Baker2 one. My favourite though, is Baker1-Davison. Very well done, lovely music, very emotional. Just a shame they felt the need to redub it at the start of Castrovalva with Sarah Sutton's useless 'So he was The Doctor all the time'. Castrovalva on the whole though...beautiful.

I so much want to see The War Games. I'm hoping it'll be re-released by the BBC. Then again...it's supposed to be a rather dull 10 episodes isn't it?

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 31 10:10:18 BST 2000:

>My favourite though, is Baker1-Davison. Very well done, lovely music, very emotional.

Couldn't agree with you more, it's the first one I ever saw, aged nine, I've always loved it, in fact I watched Logopolis again this weekend. The music is FANTASTIC!!!

I'm hoping expectantly for the next BBC Music CD release of Dr Who (the first two in the series covered Hartnell/Troughton, then Pertwee/SeaDevils/late Baker) to cover season 18 and include music from Logopolis. Mark Ayres implied this would be the case in an email he sent after I wrote to him via his website.

>I so much want to see The War Games. I'm hoping it'll be re-released by the BBC. Then again...it's supposed to be a rather dull 10 episodes isn't it?

It's a bit of an endurance test. Starts well, gets very boring for the middle three episodes, then warms up towards the end when the aliens appear. Philip Madoc, as always, very, very good - that Welsh burr excellent for menacing aliens, though he's still not reached his peak as Mehendri Solon in Morbius. The actor playing the security chief, James Bree, is as stiff and wooden as an oak tree. With their goggle-eyed, bottle-lens specs, both Bree and Madoc remind me of that awful Chinaman that Benny Hill used to do... and Edward "Harold Meeker" Brayshaw is just amazingly camp, slithering round that 60's Verner Panton-style set with his pointy sideburns...! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 31 12:36:50 BST 2000:

James Bree...the name rings a bell, has he been in Who apart from The War Games? For some reason Arc of Infinity is the story that springs to mind.

I too would love a CD featuring the music from Logopolis, and also Castrovalva ideally. These two stories sort of sum up Doctor Who for me, being, as they are, expertly written, well acted and just great fun and interesting to watch.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 31 13:34:56 BST 2000:

Do the aliens in The War Games have a name, or do we know which planet they come from? Or are they just called the War Lords?

Also, how come the doctor doesn't know he hasn't materialised on earth (ditto for Android Invasion, and how come he doesn't know in Destiny Of The Daleks, ie. why doesn't he look at the TARDIS controls - they work well enough when he needs to get to somewhere)? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 31 15:03:32 BST 2000:

It isn't actually Earth initially in The Android Invasion, even though they think it is. And in Destiny of the Daleks, The Doctor has fitted a randomiser to the TARDIS, so he doesn't know where they're going to end up. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 31 15:21:54 BST 2000:

That's what I meant, in TAI, they think it's Earth, but it turns out to be Oseidon, the Kraal planet (TAI was scripted by Terry Nation, who was a comedy writer as well, so it's quite appropriate to discuss his other work in SOTCAA).

But why didn't the Dr just look at the TARDIS console and see that they'd landed on Oseidon instead of Earth?

Incidentally, throughout that season the Dr is trying to rejoin UNIT after his last trip to another planet. When exactly does he give up UNIT? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By hglijfdsfds on Thu Aug 31 15:39:40 BST 2000:

>(TAI was scripted by Terry Nation, who was a comedy writer as well, so it's quite appropriate to discuss his other work in SOTCAA).

But even if this was just a TV forum - we could still discuss his other work. Having SOTCAA here too doesn't enable that of itself. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 31 16:23:15 BST 2000:

Robot was the last 'proper' UNIT story, before The Doctor buggered off from Earth for a bit.

Terror of the Zygons also featured UNIT, but I wouldn't call it part of the UNIT years which I generally associate with Jan Putrid. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Aug 31 19:25:51 BST 2000:

>Robot was the last 'proper' UNIT story, before The Doctor buggered off from Earth for a bit.
>
>Terror of the Zygons also featured UNIT, but I wouldn't call it part of the UNIT years which I generally associate with Jan Putrid.

I think he gave up on UNIT after "The Seeds of Doom" - as with TAI, the Brigadier was in Geneva, so Major Beresford (ably supported by Sir Charles from the World Ecology Bureau!!) lead the UNIT troops and laser rifle against the Krynoid.

James Bree was subsequently in "Full Circle" playing one of the procrastinating Deciders (he was quite good at procrastinating, but still wooden) and in "Trial of a Time Lord" parts 13/14 as The Keeper of the Matrix, where he was very wooden and did little except say "Yes, M'Lady" to Lynda Bellingham, like a live-action Parker from Thunderbirds in a long brown robe....

I've no idea why the Doc doesn't realise that it's Earth when the TARDIS lands in War Games or TAI, probably the console was on the blink - all the best episodes started with the TARDIS being on the blink.... Just like the sonic screwdriver was always able to open doors, except when it couldn't.... if you see what I mean.

OK guys, after 198 postings in this strand, shall we just monopolise the "Invasion of the Dinosaurs Part 1" strand for our general meanderings about Doctor Who? I have to say, this is one of the best "Who" conversations I've ever had, but it hardly seems fair to have two separate "Who" conversations going on simultaneously at either end of the Forum...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Aug 31 19:30:28 BST 2000:

Yes, I knew James Bree had played a Time Lord of some sort. That's why Arc of Infinity came to mind. And I completely forgot Seeds of Doom as a UNIT story. I think I can be forgiven that, though. Please?

And okay, we might as well finish this thread now we've made 200 postings.

<sniff>

I'm going to miss this place. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 11:27:18 BST 2000:

But Seeds isn't a proper UNIT story, because the Doc just rings them up and tells them to bomb Harrison Chase's mansion, that's all they do. The Dr doesn't deal with them in his Dr caoaacity, if you see what I mean.

Also, in the book of Terror Of The Autons, the Matser's real (Gallifreyan) name is mentioned by a helpful timelord, and I think the Dr's is too in some other story. Were they actually in the show? If so, what were they? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 11:28:27 BST 2000:

Sorry, should have put "Dr capacity, if you see what I mean".

Do you see it now? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 1 12:21:20 BST 2000:

It's alright, I knew what you meant, Jon.

You're right about SOD, it's hardly UNIT at all, and if the Brigadier isn't in it then it doesn't count does it?

No idea about the Master's real name.

Jackanapes?
Boris?
Keith?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 12:41:05 BST 2000:

What do you say to the idea that The Meddling Monk was The Master?

Does anyone know how the ideas abou the Doctor's origins developed during the show? "The Time Meddler" was the first to feature someone from the Doctor's own race, who also had a TARDIS. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 12:42:08 BST 2000:

I mean how the script writers etc. developed the ideas. Who laid down the details. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Fri Sep 1 13:35:10 BST 2000:

The Doctor never actually left UNIT - check Ep. 1 of 'Time Flight' (but not the rest of it - it's rubbish!) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 1 14:23:23 BST 2000:

I'm still avoiding buying Time Flight. I love the Peter Davison era, but Time Flight is one story I don't feel the need to see.

Yet. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Sep 1 15:44:21 BST 2000:

Yes, he does mention UNIT in "Time Flight", also Sir John Sudbury of CID or something - can't remember, haven't seen in since '82, and I have no intention of buying it until it turns up in a dumpbin reduced to £3.99...

You can't dismiss "Seeds" as a UNIT story just because the Brig's not in it, otherwise you'd have to dismiss "Android Invasion" too. In "Seeds" The Doctor didn't just ring up UNIT and tell them to bomb Chase's mansion, he went to London to meet Beresford and demand action. I daresay he'd have done even more had he not been rushing back with that UNIT corporal to rescue Sarah from the plants, using the latest military defoliant spray!

Anyway, "Terror of Zygons" isn't the last proper UNIT story, it's "Battlefield", in which Shyster McCoy flashes about with two antiquated UNIT passes featuring BBC publicity stills from "Mind of Evil" of Pertwee and Katy Manning. It also boasts various corporals who talk about the good old days, plus two Brigadiers, Lethbridge Stewart and Bambera. Don't like "Battlefield", it's too camp for my taste, "Fenric", "Remembrance" & "Greatest Show" infinitely better...

I've no idea either about the Master's real name. The Doctor's real name is supposed to be something like "Theta Sigma", but then maybe that's just a Gallifreyan nickname. Then again "Omega" was the real name of that God-like renegade Time Lord from Rassilon's day, and that's a Greek word....

The Master and the Meddling Monk are not one and the same, I feel, otherwise I'm sure the Doctor would have mentioned it...

What a bizarre conversation... I need a gin and tonic... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 15:51:12 BST 2000:

In clips of An Unearthly Child the console room does not have the familiar circly-thing wall effects. When did they first appear, and was their appearance remarked upon? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 1 16:03:09 BST 2000:

Erm...over to you, Simon.

And if there's one thing I do like about Battlefield (the fact that it's camp is also fine with me, strangely enough), is the final scene. For once, they're actually seen relaxing after an adventure.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 16:23:34 BST 2000:

I like the bit when they first go in the pub, and the barman - who used to play someone in Juliet Bravo - charges them a fiver for 2 drinks and the Doctor says: "Remember! This is the future!"

The worst continuity error in DW is the end of Trial Of A Timelord, where the Dr goes off with Bonnie Langford, despite not having met her at that point in his life (the stuff with the Vervoids is a future adventure he's called up, because the one with Brian Blessed in happens straight before he gets called to the Trial). That's why I hate TOATL. Also I hate the fact they used the Trial idea all over again when it had been done in War Games.

TOATL isn't very good anyway because Robert Holmes died before he could write the last episode and no one knows how he was going to end the story. The last ep was cobbled together by Eric Saward or someone. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Sep 1 16:35:07 BST 2000:

I'm not leaving this thread to die.

I've locked myself in the bathroom and I'm wearing the Tom Baker pants. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 16:42:48 BST 2000:

I ignored it for ages but now I'm hooked. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Sep 1 16:56:44 BST 2000:

>In clips of An Unearthly Child the console room does not have the familiar circly-thing wall effects. When did they first appear, and was their appearance remarked upon?

> Erm, over to you Simon

You are taking the piss, aren't you??!!










You mean the "lit roundels"? Yes they're there in "An Unearthly Child" - even that strange photographic blow-up, as used right up to the end of the Troughton era and even a few early Pertwees, was there in the original console room....

Do you know, there are people out there who want this strand obliterated? if that happens, we must swap e-mail addresses, and continue this highly interesting conversation...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 1 17:04:39 BST 2000:

But I'm certain that in the very first copy of Doctor Who Weekly, when they did the story of Unearthly Child, they had a picture of the console room that didn't have them, it just had flashing-light computery type things. It stuck in my mind because it didn't look like the later console room. Maybe it was a publicity shot or something. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 1 17:10:55 BST 2000:

The hideous console room from the mid Pertwee era is just...hideous, with those big bowls all over the wall.

Handy for the punch at the bi-monthly TARDIS parties, though. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Sep 1 17:59:31 BST 2000:

>The hideous console room from the mid Pertwee era is just...hideous, with those big bowls all over the wall.

Pertwee loathed it (you know how forthright he could be - he said it looked like someone stuck a load of washing-up bowls up), and I gather everyone else did too, so it only ever appeared in "The Time Monster". For the next story,"The Three Doctors" they re-built the set, and enlarged it, so that all those extras (Dr Tyler, Mr Ollis, Benton, Brig, Jo, Dr 2 & Dr 3) could fit in, and they kept it big thereafter. In fact, the console room of "The Three Doctors" even has the original style scanner, a standard BBC monitor hanging from the ceiling in a big square box.

Mike Kelt, BBC special effects guy who re-built the console for "The Five Doctors" and seasons 21-26 thereafter, came up with a great quote about why he had to do so... "Because I was so pissed off with the crap it was before"!

Take my word for it that the original console room had the roundels - the shot in DW Weekly could well have been a view taken across the console with the far side of the room in the background, or cropped in such a way that the roundels were obscured. That far side did, in fact, have slightly different walls - they were plain plastic panels backlit, and had some interesting, circular pads on the floor and ceiling, a bit like the transporter room in Star Trek. The original console room also has a six-sided power unit suspended far above the console - that great wide shot in An Unearthly Child when Ian and Barbara first fight their way in shows it briefly, also in the next shot which pans across to reveal Susan standing by the console. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 1 19:01:23 BST 2000:

That unit in Planet of the Daleks, the one that looks like it came from an MFI showroom, with the little bed and everything. Was that always there or was it designed especially for that story? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 2 15:27:19 BST 2000:

>That unit in Planet of the Daleks, the one that looks like it came from an MFI showroom, with the little bed and everything. Was that always there or was it designed especially for that story?

They must have got it in specially for the story, just like that set of wicker chairs and occasional table that pop up in "The Five Doctors" and a few other times in season 21, or the cabinet containing the fishing rod as seen in "Androids of Tara"...

By the way, regarding my earlier comments about "Battlefield" being too camp for me, I don't object to camp per se - despite being straight as a lamp-post, most of my friends think I'm the campest person they know, especially after a few gin and tonics... It's the only reason why I'm prepared to put up with the original Star Trek series, because it's as camp as Christmas, unlike the rest of then, which are as pretentious as Pentecost...
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Sep 2 15:39:11 BST 2000:

It's a strange thing: I've never sat through an entire episode of Star Trek, original series or newer versions, despite my best intentions. It just seems so...sterile.

My Who vid for today: 'Terror of the Zygons'. I can see why those years were labelled the horror years. There are some quite sinister parts to 'Zygons', really. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 2 15:59:43 BST 2000:

As I remember "Star Trek" original series from childhood as vividly as "Who" (it used to be on in 1982 on Monday nights, around 7.20pm - the days before rational half-hour slots were invented by Michael Grade) I have a certain affection for it. My favourite episodes are "The Naked Time", "The Corbomite Manoevre" (or whatever stupid spelling they use for 'manoeuvre') "The Doomsday Machine" and that two-parter which re-hashed "The Cage" as a trial...

>My Who vid for today: 'Terror of the Zygons'. I can see why those years were labelled the horror years. There are some quite sinister parts to 'Zygons', really.

I love it! Especially the barn attack sequence with the pitch fork. Also, the Zygon hunt through the woods after Shughie McFee from "Crossroads" (that's Angus Lennie) gets killed in The Tulloch Arms! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Sep 2 16:08:16 BST 2000:

The barn/pitchfork scene was the one that I had in mind as regards sinister. I remember reading that it had to be toned down for any video release to enable it to still get a PG certificate. Is that true or just a load of rubbish?

The cliffhanger to episode one is also rather good. Great camera work, I thought. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 2 16:32:32 BST 2000:

It was definitely toned down in the Australian BBC video version, released prior to the original UK version with a different cover. I can't remember if the original UK version was toned down - it probably was - and this new one's supposed to be complete and uncut.

Certainly, the original UK release of "Talons" (PG in 1986) was heavily edited. The fight sequence in part one (which plays unedited these days on UK Gold) features weapons such as knuckle dusters and balls-on-chains, brandished by 19th Century Chinese coolies! Mr Sin's knife-wielding may also have been clipped.

The BBFC apparently believed anyone watching "Dr Who" video nasties would suddenly go out and stab people under the breastbone, just like Leela recommends, or pick a fight with a bunch of Chinese terrorists!

"Terror of the Zygons" is excellently directed by Douglas Camfield, hence the camerawork on part 1's cliffhanger being so good - I particularly like the wide-angle lens shot of Tom Baker on the phone in the foreground, with the Brig and Benton listening carefully behind...

Camfield was a big fan of the army, and apparently would loved nothing better than to be a soldier himself, except he couldn't for some reason. But he planned all his shoots with a precision that would have endeared him to Lord Nelson, and particularly excelled at films/shows with a military theme. Such a shame, then, that his classic serial version of "Beau Geste" was utter bollocks - very badly acted by RADA types putting on "Allo Allo" accents, and with a totally inappropriate radiophonic score by Stephen Deutsch...
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sat Sep 2 16:49:25 BST 2000:

I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen Talons of Weng Chiang. It's one that keeps eluding me, and I can only hope for a DVD release in the near future (with, of course, a commentary by Hinchcliffe, as is happening with Robots of Death).

Back to Zygons, didn't Douglas Camfield fall ill during direction of one story, necessitating it be finished by someone else? Or am I completely off the mark? Inferno? Or not?

Christ, what a mess my mind is. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 2 23:25:48 BST 2000:

>I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen Talons of Weng Chiang.

May you be flayed senseless, with whips and scorpions!

>Back to Zygons, didn't Douglas Camfield fall ill during direction of one story, necessitating it be finished by someone else? Or am I completely off the mark? Inferno? Or not?

I think it was Inferno, yes, with direction probably concluded by Derrick Sherwin, but I wouldn't care to lay money on it... Now, "Inferno"... Olaf Pooley, alias Professor Stahlman, hated being dressed up as a Primord. Don't blame him really... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 3 00:04:10 BST 2000:

I can see a plus side to it. But Inferno is a story I find absolutely stunning. It's seven episodes of pure class. The entire cast seems faultless, and it's played with such conviction.

Anyway.

It might be time for me to crawl into bed, and watch the remaining two episodes of 'Zygons'.

Alone.

On a Saturday night. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Sep 3 00:13:11 BST 2000:

Anyone else find the treatment of 'Planet of the Spiders' on ROOM 101 last night crushingly predictable?

And that's rich coming from a show which has chosen to dilute itself wholesale. Move permanently to BBC 1 and save us the misery. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 3 00:15:15 BST 2000:

Yes, predictable, but quite a novelty for me as I've never seen it.

How distraught I'm not. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Sep 3 11:19:38 BST 2000:

>Anyone else find the treatment of 'Planet of the Spiders' on ROOM 101 last night crushingly predictable?

Didn't see it, I was out getting bladdered.

It's always the Pertwee era that's singled out for piss-taking, though, isn't it? I remember a clip from Death to the Daleks being used on "The Sunday Show" about two years ago, when Donna McPhail gave it as an example of how terrifying the Daleks weren't...

Don't tell me, there were jibes at the poor yellow-fringed CSO, the dire acting of Gareth Hunt and that woman who played his mum, Pertwee's granny hairstyle and mincing walk down the corridor, Kismet Delgado's OTT v-o as the Great One (or was it Ysanne "Alpha Centauri" Churchman?) and the spiders operated by string-pulling...

Who was the guest last night who nominated Dr Who, then? Probably someone who never got the chance to be in it... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Sun Sep 3 13:15:37 BST 2000:

A question - The one this morning on UK Gold (Ambassadors of Death) - was it originally in colour? The version they showed was B&W and had a rather wobbly soundtrack, especially at the start. It was also notable for the unusual opening - the titles had a teaser halfway through - plus other things I couldn't be arsed going into. But you guys will know it all anyway... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Sep 3 14:06:46 BST 2000:

There was an attempt to colourise AMBASSADORS shortly after DAEMONS was completed. Unfortunately the NTSC recordings have shaky colour picture and are not stable enough for upgrade. The BBC's attitude seems to be all or nothing which, in an omnibus context, is fair enough. Colour clips were used in RESISTANCE IS USELESS and somewhere else I think.

I don't know what's happened to the ROOM 101 repeat on BBC 1, but Phill Jupitus had chosen spiders. They screened a clip from DR WHO to show quite how terrifying they were, in the researcher's idea of "inverted commas". Now, I haven't watched the serial for a long time but said Spider voice-over was being withered away by a human controller - "YOOOOUUUUU ARRREEE POWWWWWWWWEERRFULL" etc. Names are exchanged in the clip but I'vejust woken up so I'm not running to check. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 3 15:41:32 BST 2000:

It seemed to be a theme with Season Seven that the opening titles had some sort of gimmick in them.

Spearhead had the title of the episode rushing towards the screen, Inferno had all the footage of a volcano with the title/writer/episode number over it. Doctor Who and the Silurians was called 'Doctor Who and the Silurians', that sort of thing.

Fascinating. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Sep 3 17:19:03 BST 2000:

>Fascinating.

yeah, really fascinating...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 3 18:19:17 BST 2000:

Like I said.

Fascinating reading for a Sunday afternoon. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Sep 4 00:05:21 BST 2000:

I can do a wicked vocal impersonation of Roger Delgado... Sadly I don't look anything like him.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Sep 4 00:06:23 BST 2000:

Well, the looks will come with time.

The voice is enough for now. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Sep 4 23:08:51 BST 2000:

>Well, the looks will come with time.
>
>The voice is enough for now.

This type's not really my forte...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Sep 5 00:13:02 BST 2000:

Oh I don't know.

Your type looks fine to me.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By subbes on Tue Sep 5 01:55:54 BST 2000:

Yes.... very sans serif. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Rodney Marsh on Tue Sep 5 05:37:21 BST 2000:

you goddam textist Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Tue Sep 5 07:28:56 BST 2000:

>you goddam textist

I was simply referring back to Tom's fab pun in "Keeper of Traken", talking about how he needs help reconfiguring the TARDIS with a particular calculation, and that "this type's not really my forte" (except he pronounces it "forty", geddit?)

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John Noakes on Tue Sep 5 13:22:46 BST 2000:

Christopher Biggins Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Sep 5 13:27:14 BST 2000:

I did indeed get the reference.

Perhaps I'll watch Keeper again, for the marvellous acting abilities of That Lady Who Played Kassia.

Perhaps her and Matthew Waterhouse should have become the new regular team? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Tue Sep 5 14:53:57 BST 2000:

Doctor Who is the UK TV industry's 3rd favourite programme according to:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_911000/911085.stm Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Tue Sep 5 15:47:07 BST 2000:

I thought Warrior's Gate was great, even though I didn't understand it till I read the book. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Sep 5 16:35:10 BST 2000:

I've just watched Planet of Evil for the first time.

Lovely. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Sep 6 18:39:11 BST 2000:

Perhaps I'll watch Keeper again, for the marvellous acting abilities of That Lady Who Played Kassia.

Sheila Ruskin? Well, she wasn't that bad... The woman who played Gareth Hunt's mum in "Planet of the Spiders" was a good deal worse... "Oh Arak my son, Arak, why must they take you, why, why?" Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Wed Sep 6 19:12:26 BST 2000:

It sounds to me like Planet of the Spiders hasn't got much going for it at all. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Sep 6 20:07:05 BST 2000:

Listen folks, I've just read a message from The Rob saying that he's going to delete all the pointless old strands...

It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Wed Sep 6 22:53:15 BST 2000:

But...

...where there's life there's hope.

This isn't a pointless old strand if there's still fascinating conversation happening in here! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Thu Sep 7 10:19:41 BST 2000:

What happened to that brilliant car he had in POTS? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Sep 7 14:25:17 BST 2000:

Wasn't it used again in 'More Than 30 Years In The TARDIS'?

'Doctor...we're flying!'

'Yes of course we're flying'

Sophisticated scripts like that that kept the show running for so long. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Sep 7 15:10:56 BST 2000:

>Wasn't it used again in 'More Than 30 Years In The TARDIS'?


Yes, 'twas called The Whomobile, and was actually Pertwee's very own car - he commissioned and paid for it, and used it in the show by arrangement with the BBC. It appeared slightly unfinished in "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" - the visor was built and added by BBC Visual Effects - but by the time of "Planet of the Spiders" it was complete and ready for use. After those brief appearances, Pertwee would turn up in it at fetes and fairs, no doubt to whoops of delight from appreciative crowds.... then there was the time he entertained Peter Purves with it on Blue Peter, in a very fetching brown suede trouser suit!

I should imagine Ingeborg has possession now, or perhaps Sean drives it around at Cannes... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Sep 7 16:25:12 BST 2000:

The vehicles from the Pertwee era deserve a programme all to themselves.

A crap programme, but a programme all the same.

How I laughed when Bessie appeared in 'Battlefield' with the number plate reading 'Who 7'.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Sep 7 20:11:36 BST 2000:

>How I laughed when Bessie appeared in 'Battlefield' with the number plate reading 'Who 7'.

Yes, considering the original was "WHO I" not "WHO 3" - just typical of the sort of whimsical, pretentious and dare I say camp nonsense one expects of the mid-late JNT era. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 7 23:34:15 BST 2000:

>>How I laughed when Bessie appeared in 'Battlefield' with the number plate reading 'Who 7'.

Worst ever McCoy line - "MORGAINE! If they're dead!"

*Loved* that snarl.

It is common knowledge that the evil monster thing whose name eludes me turned up in the second Bill and Ted film, isn't it?

Also, 'Warrior's Gate' - best DR WHO story if there can be such a thing. It get's my vote, along with 'Kinda'.

Shall we do a pointless story poll, thereby performing an ingenious satire? You can smell the agenda in DWB/M lists - perhaps us lot are more pure? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 8 10:21:04 BST 2000:

Us lot, pure? Hmm.

I can't really name my favourite story. I'm not even sure if I could get it down to a list of ten.

But as a starting point:

City of Death; Kinda; Castrovalva; Logopolis; Pyramids of Mars; Enlightenment; Black Orchid; Earthshock; Curse of Fenric; Remembrance of the Daleks; Survival; Tomb of the Cybermen; The Five Doctors; Inferno; Robots of Death.

And plenty of others I can't be bothered to type. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Sep 8 13:49:46 BST 2000:

Pointless Stories:

The Savages. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 8 20:00:18 BST 2000:

I would say Time and the Rani is a pointless story, but I suppose it introduced us to the Seventh Doctor.

Even if it was in the most hideous, shite, cut-your-own-throat way imaginable. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Mr Griffiths on Fri Sep 8 20:23:17 BST 2000:

There are Dr Who stories you saw as a child and loved and the memories of which remain untarnished because you haven't seen them again. Then there are Dr Who stories you fondly remember and then watch again and cringe.

Then there's Robots of Death, which was ace as a child, and just gets better. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Sep 8 20:37:57 BST 2000:

You're absolutely right.

The DVD next month should make it even better. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 10 00:06:40 BST 2000:

Hey...this topic's at the top. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Sep 10 00:31:50 BST 2000:

>Hey...this topic's at the top.

I know, fab! Let's try and keep it there, until "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" clocks in at number two!
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 10 00:34:56 BST 2000:

It seems to have been a bit quiet this weekend.

And come next week my internet time will dwindle to what could be almost nothing, so you have to keep the spirit of these topics alive! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Sep 10 00:59:48 BST 2000:

Don't worry, John. We still haven't mentioned 'Blue Peter' and 'Nationwide' appearances so there's plenty to run along with. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 10 01:05:11 BST 2000:

Phew!

Here's hoping these Doctor Who topics will still be around in years to come. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sun Sep 10 14:57:11 BST 2000:

I heard there were a lot more Dr Who threads but the BBC wiped them all in the late 70s. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Sun Sep 10 17:36:44 BST 2000:

Have any turned up in Church basements in New Zealand yet? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Not Ian Levine on Sun Sep 10 19:57:51 BST 2000:

Some one told me of the existence of a complete thread about The Tenth Planet but it was I hoax so I killed them. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Sep 10 21:37:49 BST 2000:

>And come next week my internet time will dwindle to what could be almost nothing, so you have to keep the spirit of these topics alive!

What do you mean, dwindle to what could be almost nothing? Are you being taken out of time and space? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Sep 11 13:26:39 BST 2000:

"But he can't do that...NOOOOO!!!"

Nope, The Watcher isn't controlling my destiny, or at least I don't think he is.

I'm starting university, and so anything could happen. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Mon Sep 11 13:30:26 BST 2000:

The Watcher was the Dr at some point in the future. Or was he the Dr between the 4th & 5th incarnations, who got into some problem regenerating?

Anyway, wasn't the Valeyard menat to be the Dr between his 10th or 11th incarnations, and he wanted the Dr's future regeenerations, which would have been his own past ones... I could never understand that plot twist. The trouble was, of course, that Robert Holmes died before he could write the last episode and so no one has a clue what's supposed to be going on. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Sep 11 15:14:58 BST 2000:

Trial of a Time Lord was a bit of a mess all the way through, really. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Sep 11 19:57:11 BST 2000:

>Anyway, wasn't the Valeyard menat to be the Dr between his 10th or 11th incarnations, and he wanted the Dr's future regeenerations, which would have been his own past ones...

According to the Master, talking to the Doctor, "the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker side of your nature, somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation, and if I may say, you haven't improved with age"... That bit was written by Robert Holmes.
It's Pip and Jane Trousers (for they favoured loud checks and flares) we have to thank for the messy ending - I mean, just how did the Valeyard turn out to be the Keeper at the end? Another one of those bloody stupid "conjuring trick" twists that were becoming all too common in "Who" at the time... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Mon Sep 11 22:25:41 BST 2000:

And it was never actually pointed out to the cast at the time if The Doctor was being genuinely nasty to Peri in 'Mindwarp', or whether he was pretending, or whether his mind was freaked.

That's a great way to run a show. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Tue Sep 12 09:51:59 BST 2000:

Pip and Jane Baker, eh? The writers of "Mark Of The Rani" and "Time And The Rani".

Did they ever write scripts again? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Tue Sep 12 11:23:19 BST 2000:

We can only hope not. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Tue Sep 12 18:07:10 BST 2000:

>We can only hope not.

I rather enjoyed "Mark of the Rani" - some great bitching dialogue between O'Mara and Ainley, and it gets better still when Colin Baker joins in - they all compete to out-act each other, but - unlike the Time Lash/Paul Darrow scenario - the results are not destructive, but funny. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Sep 14 10:16:04 BST 2000:

Pip and Jane Baker wrote a childrens BBC comedy called "Watt On Earth".

Do you see? Watt... On Earth!

Ha ha ha ha ha oh my aching sides. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 14 15:19:59 BST 2000:

Three of the shortest words they ever used.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Sep 15 13:04:53 BST 2000:

Right then, how do we feel about Troughton? As I mentioned somewhere else, there's little Hartnell/Who I'm prepared to sit through (I'd rather watch him in "Hell Drivers" with Patrick McGoohan or "The Army Game"), but I'm more tolerant of Troughton... "The Mind Robber" is very dated in parts, but he's very good in it.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Patrick Troughton on Fri Sep 15 13:06:42 BST 2000:

Oh my gobby gobstoppers. Oh! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Sep 15 13:08:56 BST 2000:

What we think of Troughton?

http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/pat_co.htm should answer that... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Fri Sep 15 13:14:42 BST 2000:

>What we think of Troughton?
>
>http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/pat_co.htm should answer that...

or maybe http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/pat__co.htm


Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Sep 15 13:19:25 BST 2000:

Dear me - pedantry continues to haunt Faze even over the internet... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Sep 15 17:39:58 BST 2000:

>>What we think of Troughton?
>>
>>http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/pat_co.htm" target="_top">http://www.stanley115.freeserve.co.uk/pat_co.htm</a> should answer that...

Mockery apart, I don't mind a bit of Troughton on a wet Sunday afternoon...
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Ricardo on Fri Sep 15 20:17:09 BST 2000:

>Dear me - pedantry continues to haunt Faze even over the internet...

I just couldn't find the page - so I had to track it down.
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 16 23:00:15 BST 2000:

OK, so no-one wants to chat about Troughton then... we could have drifted off into all sorts of interesting areas, like his Father Brennan in "The Omen", his fantastic beards in "Knights of God" and "The Box of Delights", or that 70's children's ITV series "The Feathered Serpent" where he was the villain opposite, I think, Diane Keen...

Ah well. Saw "Nightmare of Eden" today, but was so amused by its dodginess I nearly fell off my chair
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sat Sep 16 23:41:13 BST 2000:

"Oh! My arms! My legs! My... everything!"

Lovely.



Troughton is the best doctor, and I say that in full knowledge of the swathes of abuse I could receive for making such a flippant claim.

My favourite non-Who appearance, once 'The Omen', has now become 'The Baddies' - his long forgotten episode of 'The Goodies'. He dressed like Valentine Dyall (Davison period) and for my money had a better laugh. No, I mean *really* going for it with the "n'yah-ha-ha"s. If only Dyall had ran around screaming "I'm so evil" it would've saved time.

I still treasure my audio tapes of the missing Troughtons, which of course far outweigh the existing vids.

Is series 6 really that bad, or is it the romanticising of "elder statesmen" fans of the Seventies? It's time that we were told. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sun Sep 17 01:21:26 BST 2000:

I love Troughton and also consider him the best Doctor (joint with Davison - and I'm ready for swathes of abuse on that one...)

I've seen quite a bit of Season Six - as it's the one season where a lot survives. The Krotons is dull, and The Dominators also, but the other stuff is great. The Seeds of Death is entertaining and quite tense in places. The Invasion, though sadly incomplete, has to be one of the best Who stories ever IMHO. Tobias Vaughan is a terrific villain, arrogant and cool. And the Cybermen invading London sequence still looks stunning. The War Games is a tad overlong, but I actually find it pretty engaging, and the enemies, the War Lords, very convincing - nasty and fascistic rather than panto villains. The Mind Robber is also pretty good - very imaginative. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Sun Sep 17 12:08:28 BST 2000:

"The Krotons" got repeated during the "5 faces of DW" series of repeats, screened between the last TB and the 1st PD series (I think). The chosen stories were:

An Unearthly Child
The Krotons
Curse Of Peladon
Genesis Of the Daleks (edited)
er.. Logopolis(?). Or was it "The 3 Drs"?

There was also a repeat of "Carnival Of Monsters" at some point, part of a "DW-the monsters" season. Can't remember what the others were.

"Full Circle" & "Keeper of Traken" got reshown in 2 50-minute episodes during the summertime after they were first shown. I think that used to be a BBC convention, to reshow bits of the previous DW season. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Sun Sep 17 14:34:42 BST 2000:

The original 5 Faces season went like this:
An Unearthly Child
The Krotons
Carnival of Monsters
The Three Doctors
Logopolis

The later season (Doctor Who and the Monsters) was
Curse of Peladon
Genesis of the Daleks
Earthshock (?)
Not sure about the last one... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Jon on Sun Sep 17 15:26:35 BST 2000:

Were the Zarbi supposed to be real insects, or were they robots?

Other brilliant monsters that should have been brought back, instead of only getting 1 show:

*the Mechanoids (like in the Dalek annuals)
*the Mandrells (Creature from the Pit)
*the Ogri (Stones Of Blood)
*the Krynoids (Seeds Of Doom)
*the Zygons (Terror of the Zygons)

Why weren't the Ice Warriors given another outing, as well? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Sep 17 16:39:49 BST 2000:

>The later season (Doctor Who and the Monsters) was
>Curse of Peladon
>Genesis of the Daleks
>Earthshock (?)
>Not sure about the last one...

Yes, twas Earthshock. That season was in July 1982.

The summer of '83 (when I was on holiday in Brixham in Devon, with BBC West and TSW to get used to) saw repeats of
Kinda
The Visitation
Black Orchid

In Summer '84, there were BBC1 repeats of:
The Five Doctors (episodic form)
The Awakening Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Sep 17 18:40:05 BST 2000:

What was that story I heard that part 2 of 'The Awakening' was damaged after broadcast and they had to remaster it from a home recording? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Sun Sep 17 19:21:06 BST 2000:

As I heard it at the time... the master of part 2 was scratched big time when someone was taking clips from it for a school's TV show. However, the transmission master of the compilation edition still existed, so they just made a new part 2 from there. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Mon Sep 18 14:04:18 BST 2000:

After having watched several Pertwee episodes, it seems to me that the plot for all of them is that some aliens take over a factory, sack all the workers, and possibly make robot thingies - automatons or whatever. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Wed Sep 20 09:30:55 BST 2000:

>After having watched several Pertwee episodes, it seems to me that the plot for all of them is that some aliens take over a factory, sack all the workers, and possibly make robot thingies - automatons or whatever.

Very 70s then!

Had to bring this thread back - we've come too far to give up now...
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Wed Sep 20 18:39:43 BST 2000:

>>After having watched several Pertwee episodes, it seems to me that the plot for all of them is that some aliens take over a factory, sack all the workers, and possibly make robot thingies - automatons or whatever.
>
>Very 70s then!
>
>Had to bring this thread back - we've come too far to give up now...


Hear, hear! I bet those comedy fiends were rejoicing in its temporary disappearance. We have got to outlive "Best Local TV Programmes?" by at least three regenerations...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Al on Wed Sep 20 22:36:10 BST 2000:

Yes - I did want to make it to 300 but -

Has anyone seen the commercial release of 'Shada'? What's it like? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Nev on Wed Sep 20 23:40:41 BST 2000:

interesting. I don't think it would be a 'classic' story, but Douglas Adams' writing would set it above the run-of-the mill.

The released copy is, however, completely ruined by the not-so-delicate hand of Keff McCulloch, whose idea of incidental music is to switch hsi Yamaha on and press the 'demo' button. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bean Is A Carrot on Thu Sep 21 11:16:59 BST 2000:

I think the next Doctor Who should be Dale Winton. With Tony Robinson as the companion. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By rICHARD on Thu Sep 21 13:06:09 BST 2000:

>We have got to outlive "Best Local TV Programmes?" by at least three regenerations...

That's back too though!

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Richard on Thu Sep 21 13:10:00 BST 2000:

Here - everybody over to "You want a controversial thread do you? Alrighty then... " now!
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 23 21:01:41 BST 2000:

>Here - everybody over to "You want a controversial thread do you? Alrighty then... " now!
>

Still keeping it going!!! So, we've done Troughton... What about Davison?

I quite like "Four to Doomsday", it's one of the best pieces of television I've ever seen, with one of the best spacewalk sequences in the history of film and television.....


Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Sat Sep 30 21:19:45 BST 2000:

Here - everybody over to Napster - there is a great remix of the Doctor Who Them tune. The filename is Doctor Who-Remix.mp3 and it is from Naparater. I think it used the Special Edition of 'The Five Doctors' as a base and it is done well, although it does get a bit carried away near the two minute mark. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By '. i .' on Sat Sep 30 21:28:36 BST 2000:

just keeping this thread alive incase John! e'er returns..... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Sep 30 21:42:24 BST 2000:

>I quite like "Four to Doomsday", it's one of the best pieces of television I've ever seen, with one of the best spacewalk sequences in the history of film and television.....

So what about Four to Doomsday then?
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Al' on Sat Sep 30 22:43:25 BST 2000:

Four To Doomsday. Well, crap spacewalk aside, I saw it again earlier this year and I really enjoyed it. It looks quite stunning in places, and, I believe it was the first Davison story actually recorded - given that Davison puts in a very assured performance. Actually, bar Time Flight, the whole of that season is extremely good. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'ma45ul' on Tue Oct 3 00:00:12 BST 2000:

Danile O'Mahoney's "Projections" Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Daniel O'Mahoney' on Tue Oct 3 00:00:47 BST 2000:

What about them? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Tue Oct 3 21:45:40 BST 2000:

>Actually, bar Time Flight, the whole of that season is extremely good.

Let joy be unconfined that we can finally buy that on video. I find 'Time Flight' and 'Doomsday' bleakly entertaining. The latter is just not quite "there" as a production, whilst the former is simply a result of bad planning with the season nineteen budget.

I haven't seen 'Four to Doomsday' since it was on a large screen at some local meeting of Dr Who repribates. I've always had problems with the Scooby Doo cliffhanger (pulling the mask off). Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Wed Oct 4 00:31:59 BST 2000:

I too used to attend a local group with a big screen. It always used to break down during Meglos. Funny, that. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Steve Shelley' on Wed Oct 4 15:28:57 BST 2000:

Richard Herring would be perfect - he has that dangerous look in his eye. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Thurston Moore' on Wed Oct 4 19:04:05 BST 2000:

And of course that feint hint of closet gay. Better still, get Tim Brooke Taylor in.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Wed Oct 4 19:28:13 BST 2000:

Before the 1996 film, one of the producers was asked about who he was thinking of for the part. He said 'Someone really English - like David Hasslehoff'!

Yeah! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Herring' on Wed Oct 4 19:58:16 BST 2000:

There are many legends about 'Into The Dark Dimension'. My favourite is the story that the TARDIS console would have a voice that would *rap* Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo (who?)' on Thu Oct 5 22:41:05 BST 2000:

Has anyone noticed that the Doctor Who actors are dying in the correct order? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Paul Cornell' on Thu Oct 5 23:59:08 BST 2000:

No, because Trevor Martin's still alive Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Some obscure fucker from Dr Who' on Fri Oct 6 00:02:27 BST 2000:

I see we've gone back to silly names.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Sat Oct 7 14:06:25 BST 2000:

>Has anyone noticed that the Doctor Who actors are dying in the correct order?

Yes.
Hartnell - 24 April 1975
Troughton - 28 March 1987 11 years 11 months 4 days later
Pertwee - 20 May 1996 9 years 1 month 23 days later

So that gap is 2 years, 10 months and 12 days shorter.

So the next gap is 6 years, 3 months and 11 days.

So Tom Baker has until approx 31 August, 2002.


Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Mon Oct 9 09:47:03 BST 2000:

I was watching 'Rock Profiles' on UK Play, a spoof music prog, presented by Jamie Theakston the other day. One of the 'Rock Facts' that scrolled across the screen during a Shirley Bassey song was:
'Shirley Bassey will sing the theme for the next Bond film, "The Five Bonds" where Pierce Brosnan will join up with Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Peter Davison to try and stop President Borusa getting his hands on the Ring of Rassilon' - or something like that. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Emmanuelle' on Mon Oct 9 17:27:30 BST 2000:

David Walliams - or Jonathan Rhys Meyers, I'm not fussy.. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Tue Oct 10 21:57:52 BST 2000:

>I was watching 'Rock Profiles' on UK Play, a spoof music prog, presented by Jamie Theakston the other day. One of the 'Rock Facts' that scrolled across the screen during a Shirley Bassey song was:
>'Shirley Bassey will sing the theme for the next Bond film, "The Five Bonds" where Pierce Brosnan will join up with Sean Connery, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Peter Davison to try and stop President Borusa getting his hands on the Ring of Rassilon' - or something like that.

George Lazenby will be represented by his waxwork from Madame Tussauds...
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Oct 12 16:02:14 BST 2000:

Wow, it's still here.

How lovely.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Oct 12 16:02:47 BST 2000:

John!'s back.

How lovely! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Thu Oct 12 16:14:31 BST 2000:

Yep.

I was without the internet for 4 weeks and I survived. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Oct 12 19:47:32 BST 2000:

The part of Rassilon will be taken by Dame Judi Dench

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By John! on Fri Oct 13 15:39:48 BST 2000:

Having not been in the thread for ages, I don't know what's going on, but I say Pauline Quirk for Davros. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Tue Oct 17 19:53:04 BST 2000:

>Having not been in the thread for ages, I don't know what's going on, but I say Pauline Quirk for Davros.

Pauline Quirk for a swift execution... Ben Kingsley for Davros....


Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Thu Oct 19 13:22:54 BST 2000:

>>Having not been in the thread for ages, I don't know what's going on, but I say Pauline Quirk for Davros.
>
>Pauline Quirk for a swift execution... Ben Kingsley for Davros....


Right, well that's it then, no-one gives a shit anymore. Time to put this thread out of its misery...

It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Doo dee dooo' on Thu Oct 19 13:37:27 BST 2000:

>Right, well that's it then, no-one gives a shit anymore. Time to put this thread out of its misery...
>
>It's the end, but the moment has been prepared for...

o........... kay..............
Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Thu Oct 19 17:06:39 BST 2000:

And the thread comes back, telemovie style... sorry Simon, but I have to kickstart a bit of debate again.

I have always felt it's ridiculous the way that fans act as though "Doctor Who" should automatically become the personal career highpoint of anyone associated with it.

Discuss.

Sensibly. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Thu Oct 19 18:39:05 BST 2000:

>I have always felt it's ridiculous the way that fans act as though "Doctor Who" should automatically become the personal career highpoint of anyone associated with it.
>
>Discuss.

I agree - though for most of them, it is the thing with which the public associates them most.

BTW, BBC2 last night - Harry Enfield and Chums - the Tardis appears and out comes one of the Scousers saying "I'm Doctor Who-are-you-lookin-at" and "Come on - where's the Daleks? I'll take 'em all"

He was sort of dressed as Doctor #7 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Fri Oct 20 13:00:12 BST 2000:

>And the thread comes back, telemovie style... sorry Simon, but I have to kickstart a bit of debate again.

Gosh, I thought I was the only person still left, dying on a patch of butcher's-shop-window-grass, in front of a radio telescope that bears a surprising resemblance to the 1981 set of "Top of the Pops".... Glad to hear from you...

>I have always felt it's ridiculous the way that fans act as though "Doctor Who" should automatically become the personal career highpoint of anyone associated with it.
>
>Discuss.
>
>Sensibly.

A very interesting point. Thrown into sharp reflief by Julian Glover in a 1988-published volume of quotes from people associated with Dr Who. In answer to the question, "How highly do your role in Dr Who figure in your career?" His answer was as follows: "In my career, not at all. As two small jobs, huge fun." Hugely entertaining as Scarlioni was, one would hardly hold that character up against his villain roles in Indiana Jones and James Bond movies, or the great Shakespearian roles he's played - I've seen him as Cassius at the RSC in Stratford, absolutely fantastic. Equally good as Arthur Birling in "An Inspector Calls" in '94.

But that's nothing compared to Doctors and companions. At least some have been able to get over it - Louise Jameson for example. Others just seem to be permanently scarred for the rest of their lives and don't work again. Pertwee always resented the Doctor tag, and has said it seriously set his career back despite his success with Worzel. He never again recaptured his versatility as evidenced in his great 50's + 60's radio parts.

I'm sure the artistes are chuffed and embarrassed in equal parts, that such a large body of people never forget the bit part they played as a giant moth in "The Web Planet", or the voice of Sutekh... I should imagine they're forever walking around, glancing over their shoulders at the likes of fans who constantly stalk them...

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 20 13:11:18 BST 2000:

But Philip Madoc did about 4 roles in DW and it didn't limit him as an actor. He was quite fond of playing Solon, I think I once read.

Anthony Ainley and Roger Delgado also got a fair amount of non-DW work, didn't they?

Could it be that DW is a good scapegoat for people who don't actually have much versatility as actors, and it was their best work? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Oct 20 17:18:15 BST 2000:

It's the way that fans overplay the 'career on the skids' card that really annoys me... the way that they suggest Colin Baker has had to 'resort' to taking lead roles in lucrative top-rated musical... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 20 17:26:13 BST 2000:

Well, it is a step-down if you previously played a 700-year old who has saved the Earth more times than he can remember, and even saved the Universe once.

Mind you, if you were the voice of Sutekh you should take whatever work you can get. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Fri Oct 20 17:31:21 BST 2000:

Weirdly enough, about a year ago I was writing something for a fanzine about this whole topic, and to illustrate my point I made reference to old 'sibilant voice' Gabriel Woolf himself - it turns out he's had an acclaimed and extremely arty career, and definitely doesn't deserve to be remembered as Sutekh alone... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Baby Coelacanth' on Sat Oct 21 10:17:17 BST 2000:

Those "Where are they now?" articles that appear in Doc Who mags are always good for a chuckle.

[Simon Pearson (Bovlox from "Deadly Planet of Time")recently cropped up as a waiter in 'A Touch of Frost'. He is getting on with his life and not thinking about Doctor Who at all.]

Stranger still are the actors who are even today exploiting the characters they played for a fortnight twenty-odd years ago.

[Peter Miles ('Nyder' in "Genesis of the Daleks) is currently pitching ideas for several Nyder-based series to TV executives, including "Nyder's Bar", "Nyder PI" and "Fascist Right-Hand Men Behaving Badly". Peter Miles' Autobiography "Nyder One Thing Nor The Other" is published next month by Secker & Kaled] Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sat Oct 21 19:13:26 BST 2000:

>>Peter Miles ('Nyder' in "Genesis of the Daleks) is currently pitching ideas for several Nyder-based series to TV executives, including "Nyder's Bar", "Nyder PI" and "Fascist Right-Hand Men Behaving Badly". Peter Miles' Autobiography "Nyder One Thing Nor The Other" is published next month by Secker & Kaled

That's brilliant, I wish I'd thought of that!

Obviously it depends on the actor concerned, you're right that Madoc enjoyed Dr Who, but so did Glover - the latter just didn't regard either Richard I or Scarlioni as the pinnacles of his career, rightly so.

I'm sure Madoc doesn't regard either Solon, Eelek, Brockley, The War Lord or Fenner as the pinnacles of his career either. His best TV part must have been the title role in "The Life and Times of David Lloyd George" (BBC, 1981) which I dimly remember being pretty good - and for which Ennio Morricone's "Chi Mai" was the theme music.
I vaguely remember reading interviews with Madoc in which it was revealed he is an accomplished linguist, speaks four languages, was an English teacher in Vienna during his student days, and had played many impressive roles on stage.

Jon mentions Ainley and Delgado. Well, both were prolific before "Who" for various reasons. Anyone seen "The Land That Time Forgot", or Delgado's turn as a hostile sheik in "Khartoum", alongside Olivier as The Mahdi and Charlton Heston as Gordon?

Gabriel Woolf, yes indeed, has lead a very arty and creative career, mostly in radio drama where his voice talents have been feted, but that was the case in 1975 too - his radio career and voice talents were the reasons for his casting as Sutekh.

He turned up at my school in the mid-80's, for a Literature Evening dedicated to War Poets like Sassoon, Owen, Keyes etc. One thing I particularly remember was his rather accurate impression of Chamberlain's 1939 broadcast about this country being at war with Germany... I went up to him afterwards and asked for his autograph, saying that I'd always thought he was brilliant as Sutekh, which made him chuckle wrily... He wasn't annoyed, probably just amused...

As we've agreed before in this strand, Doctor Who's pretty brilliant in places, but as a whole it's just a long-running TV show that is fondly remembered for being either camp or cardboard or both, with mostly dodgy effects (and we all know that's because of the production standards of the 60's-80's).

No-one disputes that at least the first four Doctors were brilliant, and that it was played with conviction by everyone who was ever in it, but at the same time a part in Doctor Who - either titular or cameo - can hardly be described by ANYONE of a right mind (other than Tom Baker) as the pinnacle of an actor's career. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Bent Halo on Sun Oct 22 00:04:13 BST 2000:

There was a fabulous Newcastle-based fanzine called 'The Invasion Of Tyne' back in 1992 which did an episode guide that simply sent the whole concept of one up. Every story, it was decided, featured Philip Madoc. Sometimes as the doctor.

Funnier on the page maybe.

Roger Delgado, lest we forget, featured in 'Quatermass II' - the BBC original. He actually performed one of the cliffhangers, with the same hysteria of a "Whittaker! Whittaker" from 'Journey Into Space'.

And Simon, I never much liked Pertwee. Sorry to break the mould of your otherwise fine comments. He began to bore me after series 7. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Sun Oct 22 16:13:27 BST 2000:

Bent - how come your name is red? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Sun Oct 22 23:30:15 BST 2000:

>Bent - how come your name is red?

Don't ask - I think it really is a case of sexual favours to the Corpses this time around...

Looking back on my comment that "the first four doctors were brilliant", in hindsight it's rather glib, but then it was meant to be... I forget the specifics of what I've written about Pertwee earlier in this forum, nothing hugely eulogical I should think. But I'm not a huge fan of him either, I've always been a Baker fan, of the Tom variety.

Pertwee had one or two good episodes after season 7, but mostly he minced about in a granny hair-do too often for my liking.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jake Thingy' on Mon Oct 23 07:20:30 BST 2000:

>>>Peter Miles ('Nyder' in "Genesis of the Daleks) is currently pitching ideas for several Nyder-based series to TV executives, including "Nyder's Bar", "Nyder PI" and "Fascist Right-Hand Men Behaving Badly". Peter Miles' Autobiography "Nyder One Thing Nor The Other" is published next month by Secker & Kaled
>
>That's brilliant, I wish I'd thought of that!
>
>Obviously it depends on the actor concerned, you're right that Madoc enjoyed Dr Who, but so did Glover - the latter just didn't regard either Richard I or Scarlioni as the pinnacles of his career, rightly so.
>
>I'm sure Madoc doesn't regard either Solon, Eelek, Brockley, The War Lord or Fenner as the pinnacles of his career either. His best TV part must have been the title role in "The Life and Times of David Lloyd George" (BBC, 1981) which I dimly remember being pretty good - and for which Ennio Morricone's "Chi Mai" was the theme music.
>I vaguely remember reading interviews with Madoc in which it was revealed he is an accomplished linguist, speaks four languages, was an English teacher in Vienna during his student days, and had played many impressive roles on stage.
>
>Jon mentions Ainley and Delgado. Well, both were prolific before "Who" for various reasons. Anyone seen "The Land That Time Forgot", or Delgado's turn as a hostile sheik in "Khartoum", alongside Olivier as The Mahdi and Charlton Heston as Gordon?
>
>Gabriel Woolf, yes indeed, has lead a very arty and creative career, mostly in radio drama where his voice talents have been feted, but that was the case in 1975 too - his radio career and voice talents were the reasons for his casting as Sutekh.
>
>He turned up at my school in the mid-80's, for a Literature Evening dedicated to War Poets like Sassoon, Owen, Keyes etc. One thing I particularly remember was his rather accurate impression of Chamberlain's 1939 broadcast about this country being at war with Germany... I went up to him afterwards and asked for his autograph, saying that I'd always thought he was brilliant as Sutekh, which made him chuckle wrily... He wasn't annoyed, probably just amused...
>
>As we've agreed before in this strand, Doctor Who's pretty brilliant in places, but as a whole it's just a long-running TV show that is fondly remembered for being either camp or cardboard or both, with mostly dodgy effects (and we all know that's because of the production standards of the 60's-80's).
>
>No-one disputes that at least the first four Doctors were brilliant, and that it was played with conviction by everyone who was ever in it, but at the same time a part in Doctor Who - either titular or cameo - can hardly be described by ANYONE of a right mind (other than Tom Baker) as the pinnacle of an actor's career.


Yes, I'm afraid a lot of fans do have odd perspectives on actors' careers, and not just in Whovian circles. Reminds me of first using the Net and encountering Avengers fans in the States. When talk turned to guest actors in that, they seemed to think Peter Wyngarde is still a zonking great megastar - and they'd never heard of John Thaw. They also don't seem to know of any TV company here except the BBC.

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Mon Oct 23 10:19:22 BST 2000:

"The Life & Times Of David Lloyd George" was a great series, it was on in 1983, and the BBC wouldn't even think of doing something like that now. It wasn't based on a book, it was developed by their own writers. Ah well.

Getting back to DW...

When I used to get DWM back in the early 80s, they started doing an episode guide, but to save space they would only put down the ending to each ep. Which made it pointless. For example, you would have a story in which the Dr was hanging from a cliff at the end of ep1, he'd found something whose importance wasn't explained at the end of ep2, someone not yet mentioned was trying to kill him in ep3, and ep4 ends happily with him freeing the slave people/ saving the earth/ destroying the Daleks/ etc. A very frustrating waste of print. Does anyone know why they bothered?

The thing about DWM is that originally - when it was a weekly - they played it straight, and acted as though it were all for real (make your own UNIT card, etc.), then they moved over to doing interviews with the make-up woman on "State Of Decay", interviews with Mat Irvine (remember him?), CVs of what dorectors had done, etc. I preferred the original attitude. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Baby Coelacanth' on Mon Oct 23 13:24:28 BST 2000:

Doctor Who stage musicals:

"7 Thals for 7 Kaleds"
"My Fair Time Lady"
"Miss Zygon" Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Mon Oct 23 13:28:08 BST 2000:

"The Beautiful Green Death"
"The Stones Of Blood Brothers"
"Sunset Claws Of Axos Boulevard" (sorry, couldn't think of another one) Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Mon Oct 23 13:30:06 BST 2000:

Why doesn't someone start up a Horns Of Nimon theme park, with shape-changing labyrinth, etc?

Once you've overcome the enormous technical difficulties, it should be alright. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Baby Coelacanth' on Mon Oct 23 13:39:22 BST 2000:

Doctor Who spin-off sitcoms then....

Daemon About the House
Marshmen Behaving Badly
To the Malus Born

erm...

come on! help me out here! Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Jon' on Mon Oct 23 13:44:16 BST 2000:

Yes, Mobius

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Al' on Mon Oct 23 13:48:14 BST 2000:

>Doctor Who spin-off sitcoms then....
>
>Daemon About the House
>Marshmen Behaving Badly
>To the Malus Born
>
>erm...

Only Fools and Myrkas
Citizen Goudry
Dad's UNIT
Black Books of Rassilon
Spaced-Timed
One Foot in the Zero Room

Musicals
The Phantom of the Opera of Doom
Colin Baker and the Amazing Techicolour Dreamcoat
Omega Superstar
Vortex Express

ctd. pg 94

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Mon Oct 23 13:56:28 BST 2000:

What about Doctor Who songs? What do people think of The Timelords' (aka the KLF) song and that thing by Orbital? Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Mon Oct 23 15:48:22 BST 2000:

I tried to start a hoax about a "Power Of Kroll" theme park once... a couple of people actually mentioned it in their fanzines... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By Simon Harries on Mon Oct 23 20:15:58 BST 2000:

>What about Doctor Who songs? What do people think of The Timelords' (aka the KLF) song and that thing by Orbital?

Well, I've always liked that Human League B-side, "Tom Baker". It's rather cool...
There's another good track by Blood Donor, but I forget what it's called. Nice picture sleeve on the original 45rpm single, featuring the TARDIS with a shaft of light shooting through the open door at sunset. Not a bad song, better mixing-in of the TARDIS take off effect than the BBC Ron Grainer/Delia Derbyshire theme single RESL11 !!

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By TJ on Mon Oct 23 20:23:38 BST 2000:

I _think_ the Blood Donor track is called "Doctor...?" Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'RapH' on Mon Oct 23 22:39:12 BST 2000:

Absolutely Frontios
Terileptil & June
To The Mara Born
Steptoe & Sontaran Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Wed Oct 25 11:11:33 BST 2000:

Nothing to add. Just keeping the thread alive. As you were, everyone. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Mr Finger's fancy cream' on Wed Oct 25 11:22:34 BST 2000:

Songs: The track 'sally-james' by Bear contains Tom Baker's "Homo Sapiens..." speech from the Ark in Space, rather nicely over some guitar. Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Thu Oct 26 10:05:05 BST 2000:

Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Irritating Heater Kid' on Thu Oct 26 14:11:22 BST 2000:

I am 15 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'rICHARD' on Thu Oct 26 15:49:12 BST 2000:

>I am 15

I am 23 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Richard' on Thu Oct 26 15:49:22 BST 2000:

>I am 15

I am 23 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Irritating Heater Kid' on Thu Oct 26 15:54:37 BST 2000:

Who is Colin Baker? I'm only 15 Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Assorted Doctor Who Fans' on Thu Oct 26 16:11:42 BST 2000:

*ahem*


Back to the topic, please... Subject: Re: Who for Doctor Who?
Posted By 'Irritating Heater Kid' on Thu Oct 26 16:13:39 BST 2000:

Sorry