aah, but is she a graduate trainee, or is that just the way the Landlord chooses to perceive her.
Look beneath the text my friend.

Are you enjoying the series. For my money it goes up a gear from episode 5 onwards (though we still have ten shows to record and nine to write so there's no saying it won't go back a gear after that!) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Jon on Tue Oct 3 17:00:31 BST 2000:

I like it, though it's still settling down. At the start I thought Al was too OTT, and I still don't like the Phil Daniels character, some of the things he says/does are too stupid to be funny, if you see what I mean.

Do you remeber an 80s sitcom called "Wilderness Rd" that ran for 1 poorly-received season on BBC1? There have been moments when I was reminded of it.

But there's loads of stuff I liked, and I haven't seen the tape of ep4 yet.

I thought the postman was shallow and unconvincing, however. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Tue Oct 3 18:07:14 BST 2000:

I will also add my opinions, mainly because Richard Herring will actually see them, and believe me I'm not simply jumping at the chance to slag things off simply because the actual writer will see it. I hope it will constructive, I know it's really hard to critisize your own work, especially comedy, not in the fact you feel egotistical about it, but if you wrote it yourself, you become quite indifferent about everything surrounding it. Anyway back to the subject, I initially upon viewing the very first episode, didn't love it straight away, but I could see a couple of things I did like and thought would become a lot funnier as the series went on. I mostly think this kind of stuff is from Al Murray's long running Pub Landlord routine, but as I've only seen short extracts of it, then I don't know.
But each episode afterwards has been getting weaker for me, and the characters are becoming even less believable and 2 dimensional. I liked the initial thing of the Landlords catchphrases, and the way he kept getting the dirty phone calls but stayed on the line because he was unconsciouly getting some perverse pleasure out of them, and of course his "I was never confused" catchphrase during it I found funny. But through the rest of the episodes he just seems to shout out that at random moments hardly pertaining to homophobia and it just weakens the catchphrases with overuse. All the initial things from the first episode I thought would progress and get better as the series went along just died a death on the 2nd episode basically and are getting flogged to death routinely. I think also Herring is getting some of his own perverse pleasure himself casting a Herring sound alike as Steve and also casting his long time obsession Julia Sawhalalala as the nymphomaniac barmaid always after his arse.
And the other characters just seem like little side people just to space out between the 2-3 main characters, basically its all obviously based around Murray, just feeding off with his comedy over biggoted opinions.
I've only seen up to episode 4 so it still has a lot of time to progress, but if it carries on like it is now it's gonna drag on so badly. I just hope it gets a bit cleverer rather than just being the Landlord shouting out catchphrases over and over and simply basing the plot around opportunities for him to use those phrases. I know Herring can write a lot clever than this, make things more subtle, and don't rely so much on catchphrases. I think catchphrase based comedy is very lazy ideed. Anyway, I know Mr. Herring is very talanted, though I don't have much experience with Murray, so who's dragging who down I don't know. Kill the 2 demensionalism of the characters, such as Terry the incredibly 2d farting person, try and get rid of the catchphrases, or actually be inventive and subtle with them, and just make the entire show a bit clever too, rather than just based on farting and gays.

On the other hand... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Tue Oct 3 19:52:01 BST 2000:

Steven
The Landlord is a man obsessed and tortured by all sorts of things. They're not catchphrases, they're obsessions, his demons. The gay night ep was an opportunity to take on one of those obsessions. Would anyone who wasn't "confused" feel the need to go on about how he was never confused? You tell me.
BUT, you seem to think that the things you like in ep one are from my stand up, but then say you don't have any experience of my act. Tidy up your argument and we can talk about it again later.

Take care Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Oct 3 20:21:56 BST 2000:

Glad the TGP strand is back again.

I was going to post the other day about how I thought episode 4 was the weakest so far, but I enjoyed it more having watched it again. Best so far (which seems to agree with previous posting here) was the first episode, which definately improved upon 2nd viewing (a friend has also said this).

I don't see Terry as 2 dimensional. Tho I did at first. When he started farting I thought the show was pitching itself at the typical Sky viewer/typical viewer as seen by Sky (you decide which is applicable), but he's got more depth than a man who farts=funny ha ha prime time ITV. You could even feel a bit sorry for him in episode 4, when his good deed was overlooked.

I enjoyed the Landlord's "never confused" stuff in episode 1, and in 2. I do get the feeling it's a bit overused though. Maybe it's character building. I've only seen the 4 episodes so far, and 2 being recorded. I genuinely look forward to it, and it's been some time since I've been able to say that about any programme.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Tue Oct 3 23:10:47 BST 2000:

<For my money it goes up a gear from episode 5 onwards...

For your money Richard I'd sell mum to cannibals

Haven't got Sky but I did watch it being filmed, and I enjoyed it very much. What I didn't enjoy though was getting to the studio to find all the seats had been reserved.We were the very last two people they let in. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Tue Oct 3 23:12:22 BST 2000:

my mum (or indeed anyone's) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Tue Oct 3 23:39:20 BST 2000:

Taped ep4, (as I've been following the series) but haven't got around to seeing it yet, will post comments in due course..... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Chloe' on Tue Oct 3 23:43:24 BST 2000:

Gee - don't get bitter by the reserved seats... we had them! Can't figure our why as yet - we applied for tickets through Avalon and got these PRIORITY tickets. Said go straight to front of queue, etc.... being very English felt bloody awkward whilst receiving evil stares from people who'd been queuing for ages. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Wed Oct 4 00:06:58 BST 2000:

Thanks Chloe. I hope you got the chewing gum out of your hair (only joking, I threw dog's shit really.)

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Wed Oct 4 08:48:30 BST 2000:

. "I think also Herring is getting some of his own perverse pleasure himself casting a Herring sound alike as Steve and also casting his long time obsession Julia Sawhalalala as the nymphomaniac barmaid always after his arse."

I can't see the similarity between me and Steve at all - but I can assure you you're definitely wrong about this. If i wanted to get that perverse pleasure then surely i would (as I could have) cast myself in the part.
I have actually cast myself in the part of someone who will later on in the series fall for Julia's character and probably fail to get anywhere (I get no perverse pleasure out of this - though I find it quite funny)

I hate it when people try and guess what your motivations might be for something (critics do this a lot- guessing what you perversions or real life interests may be) It's stupid. Stop it.

I think episodes 1 and 4 are by far the weakest shows - largely cos they have to set up characters and that is hard to do in an imaginative way. But I accept that we are all learning all the time and that the early episodes have flaws that I think have been ironed out or lost in the later ones ( and doubtless when I've written 9 more I'll think that about the last 6)
Cheers Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Wed Oct 4 11:58:24 BST 2000:

Heh, glad to see you and Mr. Murray both read some of the critisism on here. Anyway, yes, you could of easily cast yourself as Steve, I was actually expecting you to be cast as a main character, and was actually dissapointed when I saw you weren't. I wasn't making a vindictive comment about the character of Steve being you. It was just an idea I thought would be funny if it actually was true, but maybe you thought the premise of Julia Sawala lusting over a fat Somerset bloke would of been too unbelievable. So to somehow get around this you find a 'tall, thin' Richard Herring alike. Heh, again, a joke, obviously, since she actually is doing this in real life, if what the papers say is true at least. Anyway, I just feel the first episode was good and showed promise with some aspects of the characters, then later into the series all these things just went a bit crap. I mean, it's still a lot better than the half hour of wank Harry Enfield does before your show, or other current shows, 11 o clock show etc. But when I heard you going on about this series being the best thing you've ever written, I was really looking forward to it, and now it seems I have been severely misled. I just can't rate this alongside Fist of Fun and other previous works, but I will watch the entire series until the end, cos if you say it does get a lot better after the 4th episode, I will see if it does. As Mr. Murray said about me contradicting myself about jokes being from his stand up show, I just assumed all the initial catchphrases were from his stand up show, he says they're not catchphrases, but what are catchphrases? Perticular phrases a character has, and repeats at every opportunity to raise a laugh, I think that fits the landlords ravings. Cos they just seemed like they were from his stand up show, granted I haven't seen his show, but he's obviously been peddling this character for a year or two now so I just thought all these kind of in-jokes were already in place before the series began, 'I was never confused', 'Back off Brussels', 'Oh dear nevermind' etc
They obviously are catchphrases, catchphrases are funny, but I think they're just lazy ways of getting round doing proper jokes, the Fast Show used catchphrases constantly, and you could see every episode had the same jokes everytime, it was just a slightly different set up to induce the catchphrase, if this wasn't true they would have had to come up with a completely new premise everytime, and that would be a lot harder to do. Man walks into suit shop, two assistants ask him personal questions and then keep saying "suit you sir", man gets upset and leaves. They had about 2 series worth of sketches just using that same joke everytime with just slightly different dialogue, it WAS funny, but still lazily written. It takes talent to come up with the initial formula for a running gag, but then you dont need to exert much talent to repeat it every week and just change the set up slightly everytime to induce the running gag. Lee and Herring use lots of running gags, funny initially yes, can get boring very quickly though unless you are inventive and actually make proper use of it rather than just repeating it at every slight opportunity. Anyway, I just think the show does have promise, but its just far too 2d for my liking, i mean, more 2d than Gimme Gimme Gimme, which is amazing. But I never miss a show.. so who's the mug? So, I'm glad you two who write the show replied, of course you're going to defend the show no matter what I say really, when you write something it's very hard to take critisism, I just think trying to pretend the show is more deep than I say it is, is cobblers. It's obviously just a play on stereotypes with catchphrases strewn about the place with copious farting. Hmm, I feel dirty like an extremely cynical press person now, I'm not saying all this in a vindictive manner, just offering my opinion. I know you both have talent, I just don't think the show in it's current state.. up to episode 4, is showing what you both can really achieve at all, and hope it all picks up soon. Just be glad you have the best show on TV at the moment, but given the current state of comedy, that should worry you more than me.
Sorry...
-Steven
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Sam D' on Wed Oct 4 13:12:51 BST 2000:

I think Herring's only motivation for posting in this thread was to make him look taller than Rodney Bewes.

Have only seen episode one so far, but hope to see further installments in due course. Enjoyed it very much, and it's a pleasure to see such a fine cast in good form. That's what I think. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Wed Oct 4 15:35:17 BST 2000:

Again, Steven, you're both thinking too hard and not enough. Try not to compare this show with anything else, think about how it works within itself, its own universe, rather than "how does it compare to Fist of Fun?" or the tailors out of the Fast Show, as its aims are quite different to both of these things, and it is written by different people. It's on a par with comparing golf with cricket, yes they both involve hitting a ball, but....

And yes, for my money I think it is the best thing Rich has written, and that he just gets better and better, and that he's a genius.

If you want to know how "dimensional" the characters are or aren't here's something that may interest you: when we shot the exteriors for the show we were based in the pub we were filming. One of the crew went in to find Phil Daniels for his next sequence - and couldn't because it was full of men with yellow teeth dressed in track suit pants.

Take care. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Wed Oct 4 15:39:20 BST 2000:

I think the first 4 episodes are OK (especially gay night) and although there are repeated phrases there are a huge amount of funny lines (but the Landlord has a kind of tourettes syndrome of the soul where he is unable to control his emotions so he is not just repeating those things to get a cheap laugh, but in fact to show his "inner" torment. They are not just stuck in willy nilly, but carefully thought out) Having said that I thought we maybe overdid that in the early eps.
It's the same with the farting. I don't think farts are funny in themselves. It is merely a character trait of this character that he farts - and has no shame about it. we didn't put it in to appeal to a "Sky" audience (whatever that means - I watch Sky) and it has been in the scripts from the beginning. To me, having worked in a pub, Terry is the most realistic character of the lot. Maybe if you guys drank in the kind of shidouse pubs this sit-com is about you would recognise the characters.
Personally I think the cast are all excellent, but it took some of them longer to find their feet than others - And everyone is constantly improving.
I think Al is too big in the early eps, (though so was John Cleese in FT and that was great) but his performance gets better with every show.
I think it is my best writing work (it's not easy getting all this stuff into 22 minutes and establishing 6 or 7 completely new characters) and making it funny and surprising, but I think we've done pretty well. And though the best of Fist of Fun may have had some good gags, this is a whole new level of writing (and the failure rate is much lower in my opinion)

We're getting good ratings (better than Enfield - only bettered by the Simpsons apparently- though that may be percentage of audience, rather than numbers, as we go out late) and mainly good reviews. And people who've seen more than 3 opr 4 episodes seem to really get into it and see where it's coming from (generally)
It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I think it's pushing back the boundaries and has soem very clever and satisfying stuff in it, if you look beyond the farts and catchphrases.

But that's just my opinion.; And who I am to say? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Wed Oct 4 15:45:38 BST 2000:

So we're in agreement then. I like it, but I wouldn't say the 1st 4 eps were perfect or brilliant. But I'll still watch it. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Wed Oct 4 18:34:01 BST 2000:

On the Steve is a Richard Herring lookalike that Rich cast to say Richard Herring lines, let's just cast my mind back to a time no else can recall unless they were me, when I was deciding how on earth to embark on sticking the Landlord on TV. Jason Freeman I saw in Rich's play Punk's Not Dead, and thought he was brilliant [I knew he was great comic, but didn't know he could act]. Not only that, but when I'd done my abortive BBC2 pilot [with Jason in, playing an embryonic "Steve"] I asked Rich if he'd do the next thing I'd do on TV [if ever - this is all about 4 years ago, maybe 5]. I asked Rich because of the plays he wrote, not because of Fist of Fun, or TMWRNJ.

And that is how Rich Herring cast a Rich Herring lookalike to say Rich Herring lines in the Rich Herring Sarcy Postman vehicle Time Gentlemen Please. I hope this clears up any doubts about things. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Wed Oct 4 20:44:39 BST 2000:

Yeah okay Mr. Murray, it wasn't like a major issue of concern, it was just something that 'could' be iffy, of course in one of the Fist of Fun episodes Richard built a shrine to Julia, which consisted of a cupboard with lots of pictures of her stuck inside it, similar to the Corrs shrine in TWMRNJ.. heh. Anyway, I wish you luck with the series, I am watching it, as Jon said I just don't think its brilliant, it's certainly entertaining, but I want classic comedy now! As we are quite starved of it in these dire times..

-Steven Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tvspaulmoore' on Wed Oct 4 21:05:01 BST 2000:

I was going to say how I thought the show wasn't *quite* working and that it was a bit like watching a concert video- great momento of when you were there, but so dependent on being live that on TV the scale of performance doesn't quite fit.

But then I saw ep 4 and thought it was the best of the lot and logged on here only to find Richard Herring of all people saying "I think episodes 1 and 4 are by far the weakest shows".

As a consequence I will be shutting up. Whilst I will continue to watch I'd be interested to know from Mr Murray or Mr Herring as to on what basis Sky would take a second series- are they really going to judge it on ratings, or will Avalon flog it to E4 or something first?

Ta. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Wed Oct 4 21:25:55 BST 2000:

Right, finally got around to watching Monday night's show.....
Ep 4 wasn't too bad, and the charachters seem more settled now and are slowly starting to be *fleshed out*. Still a few nervous glances at camera/audience in some shots from the cast, which is either poor direction or editing. Shame, because it looks as if there is doubt and uncertainty in the performers and appears to unravel the effort put in. The Queen of Hearts and Spice girl gags were well handled - I've worked in offices were that type of joke thrivies, so I'm not offended - and the show still makes me smile
However, that said, I still have three issues with the show.
1. Balance. I know that the Landlord is a bit of a loon, but it'd be great if some of the dialogue could expose his idiocy more, rather than having Swahala shouting *It's homophobia* (ep2), or Phil Daniel's charachter agreeing with everything he says.
2. Series length. Sorry, but I firmly believe that it feels slack in pace because of the length. However, I take on board Richard's earlier comments about it moving up a gear, and will be following the series through. But, I still feel that if it were a shorter run, then I wouldn't be complaining about:
3. The *tightness*. If it was shorter, then the whole series could be tighter, more time to go over bits that didn't seem to work, or shots of charachters almost directly looking at camera. Also, in ep3, the Landlord who hates all things metric says when referring to the iron flex(and I quote): *It has a thirty METRE extension* it struck as either A) 100% out of charachter, or B)Something not picked up early on, because the show seems at times to be rushed through.

george Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Wed Oct 4 21:29:46 BST 2000:

I said 30 foot cable mate Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Wed Oct 4 21:36:01 BST 2000:

And as it was in a routine I used to do, and as I have a tape in my lounge of the show, I just checked [basically because your suggestion made me think I was going mad] and it's thirty foot. you're right, "no metric Prof!!" Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Wed Oct 4 21:38:41 BST 2000:

I like it.

But I think what would really have made it must-see TV are some shots of the audience to give it that 'Freak show' appeal and really bring the essence of obsolete pubs and their danger element through. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Wed Oct 4 22:13:25 BST 2000:

>But I think what would really have made it must-see TV are some shots of the audience to give it that 'Freak show' appeal

There were audience shots being done during the warmup of the one I saw being recorded last week. Is that going to be used in a "making of TGP" or an outtakes show or somesuch?
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Wed Oct 4 22:17:37 BST 2000:

God alone knows Sheep Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'paul twist' on Thu Oct 5 00:57:19 BST 2000:

Richard Herring, you said:

>I can't see the similarity between me and Steve at all...

But surely the Steve character is supposed to share certain characteristics with your FOF/TMWRNJ persona? They are awfully similar. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 5 11:30:23 BST 2000:

As I'm writing it it probably shares some charactereistics. And I occasionally use some of my jokes. But to be honest, no. I'm writing it for Steve (and maybe basing Steve more on his Punk Not's Dead persona) but it's not meant ot be me. otherwise I'd be playing it.
I still think eps 1 to 4 are great. I just think what follows is better. I think the pace is blinding for a sit-com. I can't think of any sit com with as many jokes in it (not British anyway) and I just think it takes time for everyone to settle into something new. For me Phil Daniels character (and his performance) is one of the best things in it. (and actually to be honest much more like the Richard Herring character than anything in the show - I might have played it had i been older, but I'm glad I didn't as Daniels is brilliant)
I don't think it's perfect and it never will be, but please don't think I'm saying the first episodes aren't good, cos whatever you lot think I am incredibly proud of them.

And when you're making comments like I've written Steve a part as me then I can't really take some of your other criticisms too seriously.

If a sitcom makes me laugh three times I think it's been pretty good. And this one makes me laugh a lot more than that.

Doing more eps doesn't make us lazy or rushed (certainly not with the eps you've seen anyway) and a\ctually gives us time to allow the characters to grow. Which means I can wait til episode 7 to reveal the Prof's darker side - which I couldn't do in 6 parts obviously.
It is very annoying to be called lazy because everyone (esp me and Al) is working themselves practically to death. And it's interesting isn't it that the above complainant was wrong about the irons. And yet so agrieved. Almost like he wanted to be able to pick fault, so he imagined one

But thanks for your opinions. And I'd like to keep hearing them. However wrong they may be.

I have to say that the directors and actors who have worked on some amazingly successful sitcoms all genuinely seem to believe we have something special here. And remember Only Fools and Horses was nearly dropped after the first series cos no-one liked it or watched it. A sit-com takes time. I hope you'll all keep watching anyway Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'ribbit' on Thu Oct 5 12:31:17 BST 2000:

If the Pub Landlord is so confused about his sexuality, why doesn't he go and do something about it instead of boring us all? Now that would be worth watching. Rich, you used to be on the ball, but with TGP you're about 5 years out of date. What's up with you? You could do, and have done, much better.

But hey, it's only my opinion, and it's probably wrong.... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Thu Oct 5 13:35:44 BST 2000:

ribbit, you are entitled to your opinions, of course. I think you'll find people's opinions are only disputed by Rich and myself when people base them on conjecture or "facts" that are erroneous [viz Steven's comments about "Steve" in the show: it is amazing the conclusions you can arrive at when you know nothing at all about something]. And at the end of the Gay Night episode didn't the Landlord try to do something about his confusion and offer himself up to the firemen? Or have I misremembered the epsiode too?

Take care. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Ewar Woowar on Thu Oct 5 14:02:10 BST 2000:

If Basil Fawlty hates running a hotel so much why doesn't he do something else instead?

If Rigsby hates blacks and students so much why doesn't he just kick them out?

Etc.

I haven't seen TGP so I can't comment on it's quality, but ribbit's remark just struck me as a bit of an odd complaint against a sitcom. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 5 14:08:05 BST 2000:

Good point Al.
And ribbit, if you are bored by the series. Why Don't you take the advice of the popular kids TV show "Why don't you?"
Or at least turn over and watch something else.

It's only my opinion too and it may be wrong. However, as Al says, much of the above conjecture and observation is actually incorrect. Luckily for you all you have me and Al to correct these mistakes.

Why would the show have been in date 5 years ago incidentally. I do not recall seeing a sitcom ever deal with the subject of a homophobe actually being gay himself (not in any depth anyway) . And am interested to know why 1995 would have been a suitable time to broadcast such a show.
So fill us in.
It is only my opinion that shows 1 and 4 are the least good (to be honest I haven't seen 4 for ages) There has been bo show that has really disappointed me yet. I think the forthcoming "Help! The Aged" show didn't come across as well as it could have done, but it's still OK.

I wonder what you'll all think.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Thu Oct 5 14:38:29 BST 2000:

As it happens 1995 was an excellent era in terms of goings on. Many homosexuals I know blossomed that year. However, I do like TGP very much. It's quite delightful. I must say Jason Freeman is very similar to Richard Herring in his delivery of lines, but I guess that's just evidence that he's learnt from the master so to speak. I don't resent him for it. It's a great show.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tvspaulmoore' on Thu Oct 5 17:10:13 BST 2000:

>And ribbit, if you are bored by the series. Why Don't you take the advice of the popular kids TV show "Why don't you?"
>Or at least turn over and watch something else.

Look at his face... it's a picture... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 5 18:27:58 BST 2000:

Hmm, yes I am glad Herring and Murray are on here to answer questions about their show. But I do think they're explaining away critisisms very badly, in fact they are probably successful because I don't think I will criticise the show anymore, not for the fact I can't, but it doesn't achieve much. I just think they're dealing with it very half heartedly, and not using very good reasoning to deal with it. I could say a lot of bad things about Time Gentlemen Please, but I just kept it to the things that will be easier to fix, there is a lot that isn't easily fixed..
It's obvious I mean't I was comparing Steve to Richard's 'character' he displays on Fist of Fun, Fest of Fun, TWMRNJ etc.. I am obviously watching an 'alternate televesion' Richard Herring, who may be completely unlike his TV persona.. or maybe exactly like him, who knows. Anyway as this is how Herring comes across in his shows, thats the only persona I can make comment's on, so I was obviously comparing Jason Freeman's character to him. And they are extremely alike, in both they're lines and delivery. Obviously look nothing alike though, I just thought it was funny how Freeman acted exactly like Herring's TV persona and the Aussie barmaid was constantly after his arse. It really has no relevance to anything, it was just an observation, im sure a lot of other people have made it too.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 5 18:53:57 BST 2000:

No. Just you. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tim_e' on Thu Oct 5 18:59:08 BST 2000:

>I wonder what you'll all think.

Well, since you ask.....

I'll admit that I've only seen about half of one episode so far (the one with some
pink crisps in) and on what I saw I was very disappointed. I didn't laught once, it just all seemed a bit cliched and rotten. Perhaps I'm missing the point, it just seems to me that laughing at the "pissed old lecher at the bar" character is any funnier than laughing with him. Ho hum, just my opinion of course.

I'm surprised you say you think it's your strongest work, for me it's the weakest I've seen.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'paul twist' on Thu Oct 5 19:13:01 BST 2000:

To be honest I don't think you can judge Time Gentlemen Please (or ANY sitcom, for that matter) off watching one episode (let alone half of one). I too was disappointed the first time I watched it (first ep) but it has definitely grown on me.

Give it another chance. It's good, though it certainly seems to have divided fans of other Herring stuff. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By TJ on Thu Oct 5 19:16:02 BST 2000:

1995 would not have been a better time to broadcast it, purely because then L&H would not have had time to do the Radio 1 show, and I would have been deprived of the superb memory of Rich and Stew playing Lee Hazlewood songs to make Peter frightened of his deep voice. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Thu Oct 5 20:00:09 BST 2000:

I have to say, Steve's character struck me as very similar to the Richard Herring character we know and love from Fist of Fun.

I agree with the comments about not being able to judge a sitcom on 1/2 an episode, or even 1 episode. I saw a bit of the first series of Father Ted and didn't bother watching it again for the rest of the series, only realising my mistake during some repeats a year or two later.

You can always find fault with something, but I can't really find many faults with it myself. Sometimes I think "the timing could have been a bit better there" and I'm starting to notice (well, guess) whether a particular scene, or segment thereof, was a first take or not. But it's picky stuff. I've no big complaints. Praps I shouldn't be posting here? :)
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Thu Oct 5 20:35:38 BST 2000:

>It is very annoying to be called lazy because everyone (esp me and Al) is working themselves practically to death. And it's interesting isn't it that the above complainant was wrong about the irons. And yet so agrieved. Almost like he wanted to be able to pick fault, so he imagined one
>
>>> Wasn't trying to pick faults or imagine them either. If I err, then I'm usually happy to apologise. I'll still be following the show, because it is better than a lot of the other comedy shows on television at present, and it really does make me smile. I also stated that some of the more risky material is handled well - a compliment surely?
Furthermore, I didn't accuse either yourself or Al of being lazy. If I'm proved wrong by the end of the series, I'll happily eat a large slice of humble pie. I posted earlier that I noted your comments about the show moving up a gear - and I'm looking forward to that. I even said that I was pleased that the charachters were settling and slowly being fleshed out - surely another compliment?

>But thanks for your opinions. And I'd like to keep hearing them. However wrong they may be.

>>>That comes across as very sarcastic.

>I have to say that the directors and actors who have worked on some amazingly successful sitcoms all genuinely seem to believe we have something special here. And remember Only Fools and Horses was nearly dropped after the first series cos no-one liked it or watched it. A sit-com takes time. I hope you'll all keep watching anyway.

Fair point. Again, I can't recall metioning the words *genius* or *classic* and have tried to stay away from that debate. You are 100% right about Only Fools & Horses. I do nod my head in agreement. If we're getting into *pick a winner* territory, then we'd be as weel to get out a load of crystal balls. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tim_e' on Thu Oct 5 21:21:22 BST 2000:

>To be honest I don't think you can judge Time Gentlemen Please (or ANY sitcom, for that matter) off watching one episode (let alone half of one).

I agree. I realised after posting that I'd forgotten to say that I'll give it another chance. Subject: Re: TGP armchair critics
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo (who?)' on Thu Oct 5 23:05:25 BST 2000:

I really do not understand how someone can say that there is something wrong with TGP and spend hours of their life WATCHING it. If someone farted on you dinner would you keep eating their food or eat somewhere else! I think TGP is great. The only problem is that it is on that is transmitted down from that funny European satelite and I have only seen 3 1/4 of them. I hope that the show will be repeated on a proper British TV channel (or channel 5) Subject: The public has a right to know Mr Murray
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Thu Oct 5 23:21:29 BST 2000:

Loved watching tonights TGP (even with the retakes - as the cast made me laugh in the gaps). The Alfie Joey was SOOO much better than the warm up man who did the gay episode. Hope you and Mr Herring can put some more work his way. (A walk on in the show perhaps? He is the real Bruce Forsithe and wants his green jelly!)

But going home I have been left feeling the need for infomation:-

Did you give Mrs Cook's little boy his money back at the end of the show?

What did happen next in the 1/4 of a show you did? You fogot to tell us.

Why did you stop the coat auction? I had my eye set on that! (I even wrote a poem about it in the leeandherring guestbook) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Thu Oct 5 23:34:15 BST 2000:

Help I have TGP withdrawal!

Is there anyone near Wandsworth with Sky?

I'll be your bestest friend in the whole wide world*.

* Offer valid until end of series. Friendship may settle in transit.

:-) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Oct 6 01:39:09 BST 2000:

>But thanks for your opinions. And I'd like to keep hearing them. However wrong they may be.

>>>That comes across as very sarcastic.

Don't see it as sarcastic. It was a comment on the fact that some of the postings (specifically the one about the iron in metric or imperial) was verifiable wrong

Opinions are just that. So the bloke who's seen half an episode. Thanks for the opinion. I have decided to change the last 9 episodes on the basis of that.

Now that was sarcasm

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Fri Oct 6 01:39:56 BST 2000:

I've only watched one show (when it was being filmed) but I thought it was great. I wonder have Richard and Al considered introducing the landlord's wife. She'd know all the landlord's little secrets and he could appear weak when confronted by some type of battle axe. You might even make her a gold digger, or she could have been someone he married for money (someone who was after a passport and had to take a lot of shit from him. But now she's got her passport she could return for a bit to make his life hell.) Bring in an ex-wife Rich and you'll find you'll have lots more material to work with. It would also give you more play on the gay angle, she could make lots of little digs at his manliness. Well it’s just a thought.

Gee
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Oct 6 01:41:33 BST 2000:

Incidentally I can't believe you enjoyed tonight's recording. It was the most tedious thing I have ever experienced (especially when compared to the dress rehearsal)
But I think it will come out OK in the wash.
You'll have to wait for episode 10 to see the rest of the episode that we reshot the beginning to. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Fri Oct 6 01:50:46 BST 2000:

I saw episode ten being filmed (that's the one about the free drinks for those over 80.) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Fri Oct 6 01:51:23 BST 2000:

Or was it 14? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tim_e' on Fri Oct 6 12:23:59 BST 2000:

>Opinions are just that. So the bloke who's seen half an episode. Thanks for the opinion. I have decided to change the last 9 episodes on the basis of that.
>
>Now that was sarcasm

Where did the sarcasm start? Before "thanks for your opinion" or before "I have decided...." I hope the latter, because I did clearly
qualify my remarks by saying I'd only seen a bit of it. You do seem to like
getting opinions on stuff on here, so I gave mine. I'm not a fan from what I've seen so far, but i don't
and wouldn't expect you to change stuff based on it. I've no problem with television companies showing stuff I don't like.

Anyway, I don't want to fall out over this, since I'd still say I'm a fan of your stuff in general.

And I apologise if this looks crap, since I'm typing it in a crappy text browser. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Oct 6 12:26:19 BST 2000:

It was just a little joke, mate. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tim_e' on Fri Oct 6 14:37:15 BST 2000:

>It was just a little joke, mate.

Oh, okay. Now I'll say "I'm a fan of everything that Richard Herring's done except TGP and that joke on the TV forum" ;-) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Fri Oct 6 17:11:02 BST 2000:

>Incidentally I can't believe you enjoyed tonight's recording. It was the most tedious thing I have ever experienced (especially when compared to the dress rehearsal)
>But I think it will come out OK in the wash.
>You'll have to wait for episode 10 to see the rest of the episode that we reshot the beginning to.

It is a bit distracting to watch actors having to do the same thing six times, especially when the mistakes they made were very minor ones and would not even have been worried about if done in a play.

I think that the cast and crew would find dealing with retakes a lot more tedious than the audience (especially if they did it well in rehersals and then got a mental block on the set). I've seen two shows recorded and the gay one went really smothly so I know that the cast can bang straight through when they are not having an off day.

The reasons I enjoyed watching it were*:-
1) I sort of edited the story together in my head, and without the fluffs, it is a very funny episode in my humble opinion.
2) Oddly for a sitcom ALL the characters are interesting and just hearing some of the talk is amusing as it makes me wonder where the character is going to go as the show progresses. (Will the huge man ever speak I wonder? Will the Prof ever get to play 'Fact Hunt'? How does the sound man get all the farts done on cue?) The characters also remind me of some people I know, so I laugh at them just talking sometimes.
3) In between takes the VERY good warm up man and also Al Murray and some of the audience were entertaining. All hail the piano man, Brucie and Mr Cook's cheque book!
4) Maybe I'm just easily amused.

* As I am a mere amature, and you are a professional please feel free to ignore my enjoyment and insult your own show! However isn't it the audiences job to do the heckling?

;-D Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Fri Oct 6 17:32:56 BST 2000:

>>It was just a little joke, mate.
>
>Oh, okay. Now I'll say "I'm a fan of everything that Richard Herring's done except TGP and that joke on the TV forum" ;-)


Time out chaps?
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Mouse' on Fri Oct 6 17:34:37 BST 2000:

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be unsigned -
me finger slipped!! No, honest it did. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tim_e' on Fri Oct 6 18:19:21 BST 2000:

>Time out chaps?

I don't think we're fighting really are we Richard? I'm not anyway.

Tell, you what, when's that fabulous "Fist of Fun" thing coming back?

<ducks>
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Fri Oct 6 19:27:03 BST 2000:

In think Desmond Hoo is lovely. He is so receptive to enjoyment and can even list reasons for being happy and all of them directly linked to 'Time Gentlemen Please'.

Surely that is one reason to rejoice the sitcom's existance! Come on people let's put away our differences/pettifogging over Richard Herring's potential and be happy for Desmond. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Mouse' on Fri Oct 6 20:52:01 BST 2000:

AMEN to that..........
ooops, sorry, wrong forum!!! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Sat Oct 7 01:51:59 BST 2000:

>>But thanks for your opinions. And I'd like to keep hearing them. However wrong they may be.
>
>>>>That comes across as very sarcastic.
>
>Don't see it as sarcastic. It was a comment on the fact that some of the postings (specifically the one about the iron in metric or imperial) was verifiable wrong
>
>Opinions are just that. So the bloke who's seen half an episode. Thanks for the opinion. I have decided to change the last 9 episodes on the basis of that.
>
>Now that was sarcasm
>
Point taken and understood Mr Herring. IMHO this thread reminds me of studying poetry in English. Put a poem in front of ten different students and you'll get probaly get ten different answers, with some agreement and disagreement. At the end of the day the only person who understands it and comprehends it inside and out, is the person who has written it.

In other words, I don't have an axe to grind against yourself or anyone else involved in TGP, but what I've posted to the thread is how the show comes across to me - and yes, after all I have said, I've enjoyed the series so far, and will stick with it. The point is that only those involved with the programme will probaly ever understand it fully. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Sat Oct 7 02:04:00 BST 2000:

<The point is that only those involved with the programme will probaly ever understand it fully.


It would be nice if the audience had a little understanding as well. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Sat Oct 7 20:45:36 BST 2000:

Nothing to say really. I just wanted to keep this thread going as TGP is the show I currently look forward to each week.

And I wanted to encourage debate.

Best show at the moment? Best show ever? Heap of shit and 11ocs is better? (unlikely, but I'm trying to promote balanced debate..)
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Sun Oct 8 19:37:36 BST 2000:

Nothing to add. Just keeping this thread going.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Mon Oct 9 00:59:38 BST 2000:

I've nothing to add to your nothing to add george - although you make a good point about keeping the thread going. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Mon Oct 9 20:48:40 BST 2000:

>Incidentally I can't believe you enjoyed tonight's recording. It was the most tedious thing I have ever experienced (especially when compared to the dress rehearsal)
>But I think it will come out OK in the wash.
>You'll have to wait for episode 10 to see the rest of the episode that we reshot the beginning to.

As someone who's used to attending TV & radio show recordings, I can assure you that Thursday's recording of TGP certainly wasn't that bad. Admittedly, it didn't go as smoothly as the first recording I saw ('Never Confused'), but given that it's miles funnier than any other sitcom about at the moment to start with AND Al Murray is absolutely brilliant at entertaining the audience between takes, I still had a great evening. It's just one of those things. I always feel sorry for the cast, who must be getting very frustrated after a long day of rehearsals if things do go wrong, but they were obviously trying to get through the show as quickly as they could.

I tend to avoid going to see sitcoms as a rule because they are so long-winded, even those with excellent casts/writers, and have never bothered asking for tickets for more than one show in a series before so you must be doing something right! We've got some more tickets coming through for 26/10 and I'm looking forward to seeing how things have progressed. I wonder if the Richard Herring postman character will be appearing in that one (I think I'm just getting L&H withdrawal symptoms)?

Anyway, I'm much happier now I've recently spoken to my friend who's recording TGP for me - he says he's fallen in love with the show & thinks it's brilliant (as I knew he would!), so will definitely not forget to video it. Roll on a couple of week's time when he posts me the first full tape & I can watch the finished article at last!

Best of luck with the rest of the series.

PS Desmond - if you continue to fail to get a 'temporary' girlfriend to watch TGP with, you'll just have to come round my place when I get the tapes through… Keep trying, though, you might be winning some of them round with your charm (or shirts).
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Oct 10 10:10:59 BST 2000:

At the (genuine) risk of posting the most cliched comment yet, I thought last night's TGP was the best one ever.

Well, best one so far - you know what I mean. Even the prof is starting to develop now (my least favourite character so far). Barry's face after the pint was spilt on his head was , um, a picture.

And the production values seem very high - the sets (especially the Gents) are wonderful.

The forum being that it is, I almost feel obliged to find fault somewhere or to constructively criticise it in some way.. but nothing of that ilk springs to mind at the moment.

Oh all right then - when the other landlord ate the dogfood the action cut to something else. Was something missing, or did that scene just not get the laugh/groans that it should have done? Was it meant to be revolting but the audience lost the revolt after a few takes?

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Oct 10 10:16:50 BST 2000:

How have newspapers reviewed the show, on the whole? Apart from the online review in The Guardian which didn't think much of it, I haven't seen any others.

Has Garry Bushell said much on the subject? He was touting Al Murray as "Best Comedy Newcomer" towards the end of last year, and I've been gleefully hoping it's because Garry agreed with The Landlord's bigoted spoutings. Once he's seen a few episodes (especially "Never Confused") I was expecting some homophobic cage rattling from the Sun's foremost TV critic.

(in the same Sun where he mentioned Al, he also put forward the witty idea that Village People's YMCA stands for You Might Catch Aids)
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Tue Oct 10 10:28:22 BST 2000:

He interviewed Al in character (I mean Al was in character - Bushell is always like that) before the first ep, and gave it a positive review, although I think he said something about it not being as good as the stand-up, which I think is code for saying he wanted more rants and less plot. But I don't read Bushell anymore because he just drones on about the soaps, and I don't watch any.

The irony is that for years Bushell has attacked TV comedy for being run by Oxbridge grads who hate the plebs... and TGP is written by 2 Oxford grads, and gently undermines the prejudices of its Sun-reading central character (but it doesn't look down on anyone). Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Tue Oct 10 14:46:22 BST 2000:

My favourite moment og TGP so far was the appearance of Mike Gun as one of the bar stuards. I wonder how Richard Herring persuaded him to be in it. I can only dream of the guest appearances other Avalon acts will be making throughout the series. Good to see Al Murray's keeping it real. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Tue Oct 10 15:57:46 BST 2000:

I had nothing to do with Mike Gun being cast.
I had never really met him before and as far as I'm aware he is not with Avalon.

So far Al, Jason and me are from Avalon and I think every other single actor you've seen in the show is not. I could list them, but I haven't got time.
Frank Skinner makes an appearance later in the series and we might be using Jenny Eclair. But there's certainly not policy or inclination to use Avalon acts for the sake of it (the fact we know them means they might do it as a favour -as in Frank's case). But basically we're casting on merit (and employing a few people who we've worked with before and know we can trust to do the job)
I'm interested to why you thought I had cast Mike Gunn. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Tue Oct 10 16:34:41 BST 2000:

>Frank Skinner makes an appearance later in the series and we might be using Jenny Eclair.

Is that a joke to outline how ridiculous my proposal was?

>I'm interested to why you thought I had cast Mike Gunn.

I think Mike Gunn is wonderful. Can't you pull some strings and give him a larger part?

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Tue Oct 10 16:37:08 BST 2000:

You and your filthy innuendos, kinder... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Tue Oct 10 17:20:08 BST 2000:

I cast Mike. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Tue Oct 10 18:21:23 BST 2000:

He's very tall and smothering isn't he? Is there any possibilty he will be featured again on the show Mr.Murray? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Tue Oct 10 18:41:58 BST 2000:

He appears in the Quiz Night show (episode 14 I think) and probably some others.
And no, I'm not joking about Frank or Jenny. Frank's already recorded his bit and it is very funny. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Tue Oct 10 19:16:59 BST 2000:

>He appears in the Quiz Night show (episode 14 I think) and probably some others.

That's fantastic! Talk about listening to your audience and delivering the goods. Thanks Mr.Herring.

>And no, I'm not joking about Frank or Jenny. Frank's already recorded his bit and it is very funny.

Don't tell me, does he do some kareoke?
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Tue Oct 10 21:14:10 BST 2000:

fortunately no Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Fri Oct 13 18:52:22 BST 2000:

>In think Desmond Hoo is lovely. He is so receptive to enjoyment and can even list reasons for being happy and all of them directly linked to 'Time Gentlemen Please'.

Well actually Ms Suprise (or can I call you Kinder?) I do get happy about things other than TGP, I just do not write about my sad hobbies in the TGP strand!

:-)

>Surely that is one reason to rejoice the sitcom's existance! Come on people let's put away our differences/pettifogging over Richard Herring's potential and be happy for Desmond.

I am happy that you are happy that I am happy.

:-D
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Fri Oct 13 18:55:17 BST 2000:

>It would be nice if the audience had a little understanding as well.

Well Gee, you need to wait for the episode where The Pub Landlord reads the book 'Zen and the art of Pulling Pints'! Then you will understand everything. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Fri Oct 13 18:59:58 BST 2000:

>
>PS Desmond - if you continue to fail to get a 'temporary' girlfriend to watch TGP with, you'll just have to come round my place when I get the tapes through… Keep trying, though, you might be winning some of them round with your charm (or shirts).
>
Hmmm, have you been spending too much time in the somerset again?

I know where I can buy a girlfriend for a few camels (well her father said he wanted a whole packet of 20 actually) but she does not live near Wandsworth.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Sun Oct 15 03:01:40 BST 2000:

>>It would be nice if the audience had a little understanding as well.
>
>Well Gee, you need to wait for the episode where The Pub Landlord reads the book 'Zen and the art of Pulling Pints'! Then you will understand everything.



I haven't got cable so that will mean nothing to me other than it's a play on Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Sun Oct 15 12:34:33 BST 2000:

If the Pub Landlord pulled a pint in the forest when no-one was there, would the Pope still be a Catholic?

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Tue Oct 17 20:19:03 BST 2000:

>>Well Gee, you need to wait for the episode where The Pub Landlord reads the book 'Zen and the art of Pulling Pints'! Then you will understand everything.
>
>I haven't got cable so that will mean nothing to me other than it's a play on Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

"Whooosh!" What's that Gee? he he Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Tue Oct 17 20:26:53 BST 2000:

I have heard that TGP will end in February. Does this mean that we will get a Valentines Night in the pub?

I hope so as I would love to see the efforts that Janet the barmaid will make to get a Valentines kiss from Steve. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Moose' on Tue Oct 24 16:46:55 BST 2000:

So funny last night I cried.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Wed Oct 25 22:06:03 BST 2000:

Best one so far.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 26 00:32:49 BST 2000:

I didn't like it, but I did notice that 11 o clock show fuckwit Will Smith in the episode. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 26 08:20:00 BST 2000:

You surprise me Steven. You didn't like it? How strange.
Stop punishing yourself and stop watching it. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Thu Oct 26 11:10:44 BST 2000:

I am assuming you are Richard Herring here, and probably about to make a small stupid laughing stock of myself, but oh well.
I thought you were good in TMWRNJ- finally comedy prewatershed!
And I adored 99p challenge- is it coming back or has it been abandonned to preserve it's surrealism for future generations? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 26 11:17:06 BST 2000:

I am Richard Herring. I am him.
Glad you liked TMWRNJ. There is not another series in the pipeline.
I was sacked from 99p challenge for being intimidating (?!) so I don't know if there will be another series, though I think it's safe to assume that I won't be on it if there is Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Oct 26 11:22:10 BST 2000:

If Channel 5 or someone offered you a chance to do TMWRNJ again, would you do it? Or come up with a new format? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Thu Oct 26 11:39:30 BST 2000:

Am in mortal anguish and have declared a boycott on the BBC, until they next show Harrsion Bergeron. Or rehire you.
It is the BBC's loss. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 26 12:10:13 BST 2000:

Richard you don't understad, of course I am going to keep watching Time Gentlemen Please, as it is written by one of my favourite comedians. But of course I'm not liking it so far, but stupid me keeps watching in the vain hope it will start getting good, at least in my mind, keep doing it if you think it's good, because all your previous work was done because you thought it was good, at least at the time, and I like that stuff. My advice to British sitcom writers is to try and NOT be like Friends, because Friends is crap. Not saying your show is like Friends, I would gladly watch TGP rather than Friends, but that isn't much praise heh. I just hope this isn't the Grant-Naylor effect, comedian double act who are great together but apart they go a bit crap. I'll keep watching, the moment I see an episode that actually makes me laugh a good few times I will be sure to mention it on here. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Desmond (See you at tonight's recording) Hoo' on Thu Oct 26 14:28:22 BST 2000:

'Time Gentlemen Please'? It's like 'Cheers' on acid! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Thu Oct 26 14:34:53 BST 2000:

The Queen Vic - it's like the TGP Bar on Valium.

PS Desmond, are you related to Plantedthoseclassadrugsonmethey'renotmine(honestguv)? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Lindane' on Thu Oct 26 15:54:13 BST 2000:

>....My advice to British sitcom writers is...

mercifully snipped.

Steven - I hope Britain's sitcom writers have taken note of your advice, and I look forward to seeing much funnier sitcoms as a direct result.

Do you have any advice you can offer to our rail bosses - they could do with some help at the moment...


L Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Oct 26 15:57:38 BST 2000:

My advice to British sitcom writers is to write better sitcoms. Bet you weren't expecting me to say that, eh? (gratuitous L&H reference)

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'tvspaulmoore' on Thu Oct 26 17:19:41 BST 2000:

I thought this week's TGP was the best so far- Prof's character actually made some sort of sense and was very funny as well. Al seemed to be fitting in with the cast more easily, and it seemed to 'click'.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 26 17:22:22 BST 2000:

The point I was making is that everyone in Britain seems to be sucking the toes of the Americans when it comes to comedy now. Nobody praises British comedy anymore, they all gawp at Friends and things of that ilk. When in fact they are awful, its whole setup is a facet of one liners, and all the lines could easily be spewed out of any of the characters because it doesn't really matter. As well as the fact it's written by a long list of ever changing writers. It's all just so up itself, the cast get paid like a million an episode, and they don't even write it! Christ, it's sick, and they get treated like big stars, they could easily be any one of the other people that originally turned up for the audition, yet I'm sure they get 'You are SO perfect for that part' crap all day. What happened to British comedy? The americans use to be so dumbfounded by the talent of our past comedies and music, now we're just crap and have to suck up to their purile crap. And people like Eric Idle can swan about there for the last 25 years pissing on his legacy and the Americans lap it up. American humour is so shallow, it's setup-gag-setuo-gag-setup-gag, of course there have been a few good american comedies, but very few, and they have never been incredibly funny, only funny because they have been consistantly good over a long period, ala Seinfeld etc.
I just don't know how we are gonna crawl back out of this cess pit we are in, I mean all these British broadcasting fat cats are all climbing over eachother to produce a British version of 'Friends', and that is precisely what is wrong with them, they don't want to produce something good, they want to produce something that they can guarantee is going to work, and that is precisely why it doesn't work. Nobody new can get much of a chance without biding their time on the radio for a few years. I think what has happened with Lee and Herring is a stereotypical tale of the kind of crap that goes on, very good comedians climbing up the greasy rope ladder of radio comedy for years until they finally get a couple of TV series, which never get repeated, and are consequently fobbed off for actually being innovative and not like Friends by the BBC. And of course shit like 'Coupling' gets commissioned with a good prime time slot.
To me British comedy will always be the best, even though that sounds like some biggoted Pub Landlord opinion, I think it's true in this case, and we are failing behind America, who aren't really producing anything at the moment, Simpsons has gone very downhill, Seinfeld and Larry Sanders has finished etc.. but of course Friends is what everyone over here points at as being a pinnacle of what can be achieved, which I think is completely wrong, it is awful. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Oct 26 17:40:52 BST 2000:

I don't know anyone who holds up Friends as a pinnacle. I think for what it is it is pretty good.
The truth is that the US and the UK have both produced their fair share of good and duff sit-coms. And the best ones are usually original.
You're very desperate to get your opinion across Steven. I don't know what you do, but why don't you try writing your own sit-com if you think everyone else is so shit.

I agree that TGP is improving. Inevitably one would hope it would. Everyone is learning all the time. Compare the Simpsons now with the first series (which was good, but almost unwatchable when you know what came after). I also think it takes a while for people to get into something new so even had it been perfect to being with people would have umed and ahed (I do it myself with loads of things - including the Simpsons and Father Ted, neither of which I enjoyed on first viewing)

It'll be interesting to hear people's views a year or more down the line. But sorry folks I still think it's the best thing I've written! (though I don't know about the last 7 episodes as I've still got to write them!) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Oct 26 17:46:27 BST 2000:

Why not get Steven writing one for you? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 26 18:11:48 BST 2000:

Well obviously Richard Herring is a professional comedy writer, I am not, this means Richard Herring would be the only one qualified to attempt to write a professional sit-com. So using lame arguments like "Why don't you write a better one if everyone elses is so crap?" is just a inane rebuttal. I think some of the jokes in TGP are funny, I just don't like the way they are put across and the structure, I can't really explain it in a small paragraph like this, anyway I want to avoid this as we've already been through this and it doesn't achieve much. I'm pleased to let Herring and Murray continue on this venture, they are pro's and managed to battle their way to getting this program on air, and they deserve to have it broadcast, but I just don't think it works. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Thu Oct 26 19:26:45 BST 2000:

I think the best way to of shown the ludicrously over-biggoted opinions of the Landlord would be to of had him divorced, and his son who would be around 16-20 and could come to visit him at his pub every now and again. The son could of been completely camp, thus showing up the Landlord for the biggot he is, he could of been so at odds at the fact his son is gay that he doesn't even accept him himself, nevermind admit it to other people. His son could of come in acting very camp, possibly bringing in a boyfriend and the Landlord would talk to him in an overly laddish way to affirm his heterosexuality "Going down the club in a minute son, to pick up some birds eh?!", "No Dad, I like men.", "Yeah, I like men too, much better than soppy girls! You can't talk to girls about football or.. or girls, can you?!", "No Dad, what I mean to say is I like to go out with men..", "Don't we all? Nothing like a group of blokes going out on the town together and getting rat arsed, that's true poetry that is..". And after he left the Guvnor would have to explain away all the questions his regulars would ask, probably dismissing them with ludicrous explanations. "No! He wears colourful clothing 'cos it's the fashion now innit! No, he was only kissing that boy because he spent 2 years in France as an exchange student, you're bound to pick up a few of the customs aren't you!" etc. I think the initial thing they did with insinuating the Landlords repressed homosexuality was good, but they overdid it a tad, as well as ruining that "I was never confused" line with overuse, I thought it was great when mixed in with that dirty phone call thing on the first episode. I just think some of the initial ideas are good but just get ruined, not being progressed right or just over exaggerated. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Ewar Woowar on Thu Oct 26 21:34:04 BST 2000:

>I think the best way to of shown the ludicrously over-biggoted opinions of the Landlord would be to of had him divorced, and his son who would be around 16-20 and could come to visit him at his pub every now and again. The son could of been completely camp, thus showing up the Landlord for the biggot he is, he could of been so at odds at the fact his son is gay that he doesn't even accept him himself, nevermind admit it to other people. His son could of come in acting very camp, possibly bringing in a boyfriend and the Landlord would talk to him in an overly laddish way to affirm his heterosexuality "Going down the club in a minute son, to pick up some birds eh?!", "No Dad, I like men.", "Yeah, I like men too, much better than soppy girls! You can't talk to girls about football or.. or girls, can you?!", "No Dad, what I mean to say is I like to go out with men..", "Don't we all? Nothing like a group of blokes going out on the town together and getting rat arsed, that's true poetry that is..". And after he left the Guvnor would have to explain away all the questions his regulars would ask, probably dismissing them with ludicrous explanations. "No! He wears colourful clothing 'cos it's the fashion now innit! No, he was only kissing that boy because he spent 2 years in France as an exchange student, you're bound to pick up a few of the customs aren't you!" etc. I think the initial thing they did with insinuating the Landlords repressed homosexuality was good, but they overdid it a tad, as well as ruining that "I was never confused" line with overuse, I thought it was great when mixed in with that dirty phone call thing on the first episode. I just think some of the initial ideas are good but just get ruined, not being progressed right or just over exaggerated.



You are DanL and I claim my £5.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Justin on Thu Oct 26 22:57:52 BST 2000:

Steven - please use paragraphs, or indents, or something!!! :0) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Thu Oct 26 23:11:12 BST 2000:

Just got back from tonight's TGP recording - another excellent show & highly enjoyable (I won't spoil it for everyone by mentioning any of the best bits). We were in the second row & lucky enough to be right behind the hapless banker (I said 'banker') Al Murray conned out of £10 - does he do this every week now??

Also, what was particularly pleasing was that our Columbian friend really had a good time & found the show very funny; she has only lived over here eight months & English is not her native language, so I think that's a measure of what a good sitcom it is!

My only minor gripe was that we missed the little booklets with the plot summary & cast list. Have you stopped producing them or was there just a problem this week?

We'll be back (& I still haven't seen the finished article yet...)! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'evil paul twist ' on Thu Oct 26 23:23:20 BST 2000:

>Steven - please use paragraphs, or indents, or something!!! :0)

DO NOT USE INDENTS THEY ATRE EVILE AND MSUT DIE!!!!!!!!!
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Oct 27 13:30:41 BST 2000:

Steven that's great. Can you write up a whole episode and we'll do it.
You should of been a comedian

I am being sarcastic. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'PJ' on Fri Oct 27 13:33:37 BST 2000:

Richard, any chance you can tell me what's going to happen in TGP up to Christmas? I've got to go to university - and they don't supply Sky One, the miserable gits. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 13:34:19 BST 2000:

Couldn't you have let him down gently? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Fri Oct 27 15:30:18 BST 2000:

It wasn't a suggestion, it is what I think would of made an aspect of the show better. Obviously major plot details like that are beyond change now. I think it would of been a lot better if you concentrated on the actual Landlord and his warped mind, and showed him for the biggot he is, which you obviously tried, hinting he was a repressed homosexual. I would of though the best way to show him up would of been with a gay son, I think David Baddiel is having one in his new show also on Sky, surprise, surprise. Yet you immediately ruined this effect by going for the cheap laugh of him shouting "I was never confused!" over and over. Almost every joke that could creep into the show gets ruined by the cheapness of the structure and delivery. Like having Terry fart and mispronounce words every 5 seconds is supposed to make me laugh? I think it's just offensively cheap material. Richard Herring and Al Murray find it perfectly acceptable to put people down for criticizing their show, but he came on here asking for opinions on the show, in reality he only really wanted people to tell him good things, and I don't see what the point of getting feedback was, because it's not going to effect the show in the slightest, since the first show was written the rest of the series I am sure was set pretty much in stone in concept. The show has got really bad press, and the obvious thing to do was listen to feedback and change the show according to that, within constraints of your taste of course, but this obviously hasn't happened. I would be happy to criticize Herring's current work in a sarcastic manner, but I'm not that petty, at least at the moment.. heres hoping though... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'bigot... would have...' on Fri Oct 27 15:37:22 BST 2000:

Steven, let it go. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 15:37:30 BST 2000:

For the last time... USE PARAGRAPHS!!! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Al Murray' on Fri Oct 27 16:00:49 BST 2000:

Here we go then:
>It wasn't a suggestion, it is what I think would of made an aspect of the show better.

.......Therefore it is a suggestion? Or am I missing something, like what a suggestion is?

>Obviously major plot details like that are beyond change now.

Yes they are. You got something right, well done.

>I think it would of been a lot better if you concentrated on the actual Landlord and his warped mind, and showed him for the biggot he is, which you obviously tried, hinting he was a repressed homosexual.

IMHO [as the person who thought the Landlord up] every time he ventures an opinion he shows his warped mind up. He shows himself for the biggot he is. We haven’t hinted he is a repressed homosexual: we have shown him to be so – he offered himself to those firemen didn’t he?


> I would of though the best way to show him up would of been with a gay son, I think David Baddiel is having one in his new show also on Sky, surprise, surprise.

What surprise? If it’s in David’s show, all the more reason not to have it in ours. And actually I think the scenario you have jotted down in its full glory isn’t a million miles from the Homophobic Dad on Harry Enfield’s show, so why retread that?


>Yet you immediately ruined this effect by going for the cheap laugh of him shouting "I was never confused!" over and over.

I actually think this is a smarter way of showing he has a warped mind, that he is in denial, a hypocrite and a bigot than your sad pantomime of a Harry Enfield sketch. What you have written seems - to me - "offensively cheap material", as well as someone else's idea. We also pretty much covered the topic in the gay night ep.

>Almost every joke that could creep into the show gets ruined by the cheapness of the structure and delivery. Like having Terry fart and mispronounce words every 5 seconds is supposed to make me laugh?

Clearly not. Get over it, move on.

>I think it's just offensively cheap material. Richard Herring and Al Murray find it perfectly acceptable to put people down for criticizing their show, but he came on here asking for opinions on the show, in reality he only really wanted people to tell him good things, and I don't see what the point of getting feedback was, because it's not going to effect the show in the slightest, since the first show was written the rest of the series I am sure was set pretty much in stone in concept.

Um, no. Let’s look at your own views more carefully. You said you liked the first ep, and that then we had deviated away from what you liked about the first ep as the series has proceeded. In other words, the show hasn’t been “set in stone” all that time at all. I don’t mind if you don’t like the show, and you may have noticed both Rich and I saying that, but when you are factually wrong about stuff, or come up with things based on your [faulty] conjecture, we are quite happy to correct you. Feedback is fine, made up stuff that’s the product of your imagination [which we have seen in its full glory] isn’t. I think it’s marvellous that you have an opportunity to find out exactly how “Steve” got cast, rather than your fascinating theory [see Steven posts passim].

>The show has got really bad press, and the obvious thing to do was listen to feedback and change the show according to that, within constraints of your taste of course, but this obviously hasn't happened.

No, sorry [and this is where I think you’re wrongest of all] the obvious thing for anyone creative to do is follow their own instincts and if they fail then they fail on their own terms. The very thing that is paralysing British television at the moment is the culture of trying second guess what people might like [as you so expertly described in your lengthy and passionate bagging of Friends].

>I would be happy to criticize Herring's current work in a sarcastic manner, but I'm not that petty, at least at the moment.. heres hoping though...

Why do it in a sarcastic manner when you’ve got this cosy little vibe going as it is? After all, you’re not that *petty*. Move on mate. God knows I am.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Lindane' on Fri Oct 27 16:03:27 BST 2000:

Steven sed:
>...Obviously major plot details like that are beyond change now....

I dunno... look out for a character in the coming weeks who goes on and on about Friends all the time...



Lindane Subject: To Steven:
Posted By 'Sam D' on Fri Oct 27 16:13:07 BST 2000:

I apologise for this, but: Shut up. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Fri Oct 27 16:18:43 BST 2000:

>It wasn't a suggestion, it is what I think would of made an aspect of the show better.

Arrrggghhhhh... Steven old son, leave it, he's not worth it.

To save your sanity (and ours), I've taken a quick peak at next Monday's schedules, and I've picked something that might work better for you:

Granada Men and Motors, 11:00 pm Shane's World
Action-packed series in which Boyzone star Shane Lynch swaps his heavenly harmonies for hair-raising highs.


Enjoy!

L
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Sam D' on Fri Oct 27 16:19:39 BST 2000:

Not that I'm saying you haven't got a right to voice your views or anything. Just that banging on about the same old thing again and again and again and again is really boring.

We know what you think.

As Richard has said, perhaps it would be better if you didn't watch it.

There aren't that many places where you can make a comment or critisism about something and get a direct response from those who write it. There are some very talented people spend time answering messages left to them on this forum, which is something that alot of us forget sometimes. Alot of the 11 OCS writers are fairly polite given the amount of cliched abuse they have to put up with on here.
Richard Herring and Al Murray have answered your critisisms, but you just won't give up. How long do you expect them to care?

Anyway, I've been in the pub for 5 hours, and I reckon it's time to go back now. Or in a mo. Cheers everyone. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 16:26:08 BST 2000:

A pub with internet access? Extraordinary.

There has to be a catch somewhere. I bet it's one of those "family pubs" with screaming kids running around, etc. Tell me I'm right, Sam? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Lindane (not anonymous)' on Fri Oct 27 16:27:25 BST 2000:

>We know what you think.

Quite.

What I'd like to know is Steven's opinions on Harry Enfield's Shocking New Show. Perhaps an analysis of where it all went wrong, backed up with examples of how the script could be improved. Tell us all...

L Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Fri Oct 27 16:31:39 BST 2000:

What I see here is everybody being a bit too polite about the show, I am sure nobody surely can really be that pleased with it. And simply being polite because Murray and Herring are reading the opinions defeats the purpose. Of course it was ok for the Corpses to call Simon Pegg crap on this forum, and he consequently ran away crying never to return in a purely metaphoric form of course. I just think Murray and Herring aren't backing up their writing, they are just trying to act clever by giving excuses that don't really achieve anything, then they go and write another joke about Terry farting and saying "Ooh madame I prostate myself before you" etc, it's simply Jekyll and Hyde syndrome. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Sam D' on Fri Oct 27 16:35:03 BST 2000:

No internet access in the boozer, Jon.. just a TOTP machine. Came back to work for a bit. Might make use of the lavs here and then go in search of fun.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 16:40:38 BST 2000:

I once accidentally won a fiver on one of those infernal machines. I don't believe it's humanly possible to get the £10 jackpot. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 16:42:48 BST 2000:

A better idea for TGP than Steven's:

The landlord discovers the internet. Or: he hears Greg Thompson has put internet access in his pub, so he tries to compete. Or : he doesn't want to, because he says it's all full of gay pornography... but the brewery woman delivers one on a free trial... he is tempted... etc. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Lindane' on Fri Oct 27 16:43:21 BST 2000:

>What I see here is everybody being a bit too polite about the show, I am sure nobody surely can really be that pleased with it.

I'm pleased with it - I think it's well written and above all I think it's funny.

When I first posted on here I didn't know Al Murray and Richard Herring were reading and responding to the posts - but I'm glad they are here. I'm not here sucking up to a couple of famous comedians, and if I thought the show was shite I'd say so.

You don't seem to appreciate that other people might not see the show the same way you do. If you'd realise that you might not receive the sarcastic responses you are getting.

If you don't like the show then that's your opinion. Don't suggest we're being dishonest for saying we think the show's good.


Lindane Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Oct 27 16:53:00 BST 2000:

Funnily enough Jon the script I am writing next week is about the pub getting internet access (I read about such a venture in the Standard several months ago) but in my version it turns out to be a plot by Greg T to ruin the LL.
So your idea is a good one. But then I've always said you should be writing comedy.
Steven - again you try to guess what I'm thinking and accuse me of lying. I have been nothing but honest with you. i am genuinely pleased with this series. I think it's great. So you are objectively wrong. The fact is that your idea about the gay son has been done (by your own admission) and wouldn't be as good. We'd also have to recast the Landlord.
You seem a bit confused about what you want. I have noted you opinions, along with everyone else's, but I find your arguments weak- unlike someone like Jon who doesn't love the show, but at least argues in a mature and thoughful way.
So really, let's leave it now. I left my last message in the belief that you were someone taking the piss (like maybe one of the corpses), but now I think I may have been wrong, so I apologise for my piss taking answer. It's just the gay son idea seemed like a piss take rather than a real suggestion.
Enough. No more. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Fri Oct 27 16:54:14 BST 2000:

>A better idea for TGP than Steven's:
>
>The landlord discovers the internet.

My 'idea' wasn't a suggestion like yours Jon, as I said before it was 'my' impression of what would of 'been' another way of showing the Landlord for the biggot he is, you could of either have had a gay son, or made him a repressed homosexual, they went for the latter. And so now he has no son, therefore it would be impossible to do that, therefore it is not a suggestion, as Al Murrays amazingly witty rebuttal 'suggested' ho ho.
Anyway, yes, my messages are quite scornful, but I really can't imagine anybody loving this show, I think its prostituting Herrings talents. I am not banging on about how bad Harry Enfields show is because there's no point, he's already up shit creek without a paddle, Murray and Herring weren't. Also I was not aware of Enfield having a repressed homosexual father with a camp son, but I have not bared to sit through all of his Brand Spanking New Shows to see. David Baddiel's show isn't starting until next year, and his characters and context is completely different from TGP therefore it is not the same idea at all, his will be very very very subtle I'm sure, which will treat the audience with a little respect. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'biggot... could of...' on Fri Oct 27 17:03:16 BST 2000:

Steven, let it go. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Fri Oct 27 17:04:52 BST 2000:

Enfield's "Modern Dad" stuff has been going for a while - since the 1996 series. It was certainly in his Xmas special, the one with the Titanic spoof. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Fri Oct 27 17:11:34 BST 2000:

>I left my last message in the belief that >you were someone taking the piss (like >maybe one of the corpses), but now I think >I may have been wrong, so I apologise for >my piss taking answer. It's just the gay >son idea seemed like a piss take rather >than a real suggestion.

It was a bit of a piss take yes, especially the dialogue, it was merely showing how unsubtle the show is. But the fact you say Jon's idea must be good because it is also one you came up with is just silly. I do apologise for my scornful irrational arguments, but I find it hard to articulate my opinions into writing on this particular subject. The Corpses did a massive piss taking write up of an fabricated entire series of TGP and did incredibly scornful cartoons of the show, and this was only after 2 episodes were even filmed. They also went on about it on this board for quite a while, I don't really remember you treating them with any amount of disdain. You seem to let them get away with it. I know I am acting like the ogre here and keep nattering on, but it is because I am genuinely concerned, simply telling me not to watch it will do nothing as it is written by one of my favourite writers, I keep hoping it will get cleverer but it doesn't seem to. What exactly were you hoping for with feedback? Suggestions for plots/jokes or critisism about what doesn't work in the show? Because I assumed it was the latter. In future I will endeavour to write slowly and articulatedly thought it will take me a good while to calm down heh, but you and Murray do seem to come across as quite arrogant and condescending, which probably I come across as too, which enflames me further, but thats the problem with the written word. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'biggot' on Fri Oct 27 17:17:06 BST 2000:

Steven, let it go. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Fri Oct 27 17:20:48 BST 2000:

Biggot, leave him, he's not worth it! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Rita' on Fri Oct 27 17:28:29 BST 2000:

Steven don't assume others aren't pleased with the show. Maybe we just don't go on about it. I love it and look forward to it every week. There's not much on at the moment I can say that about. I loved Excavating Rita and it was wonderful this week seeing some of the characters and lines from it, especially the wonderful Paul Putner. The whole cast are great.

Also "You shouldn't do that your womb might fall out" is probably the best line ever in a sitcom and made me fall off my chair.

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Fri Oct 27 18:38:24 BST 2000:

>Richard Herring wrote:
>...It'll be interesting to hear people's views a year or more down the line. But sorry folks I still think it's the best thing I've written! (though I don't know about the last 7 episodes as I've still got to write them!)
>
>
So, still time to write in a character based on Steven, eh?
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Fri Oct 27 19:47:39 BST 2000:

Not to be taken seriously.


Son: Well what you thnk?

AL: Eh?

SON: My eye shadow; is the colour right?

AL: Why you wearing that?

SON: I'm going out clubbing.

AL: Pakis?

SON: No dad, Heaven. Subject: To Steven
Posted By 'Desmond Hoo' on Fri Oct 27 21:09:03 BST 2000:

You do not seem to understand the difference between saying that you do not like something and repeating the same thing (in long detail) over and over again.

OK so you don't like the show, you are entitled to your opinion but do we really have to have it repeated again and again.

You say you are a fan of RH but keep telling him and AM to change the program because you do not like it! While it is good for them to be able to have all feedback you HAVE now given your opinion many many many times. I think they should take more notice of people who do like it than people who just repeat themselves.

The fact that you like RH's earlier work is irrelivant to wether this show is good (This show is not called Fist of Time Gentlemen with Richard not Judy). If you really liked RH you would let him make his show (even if you think it is bad) as he obviously has a creative need to write it. If TGP is a flop (which I do not believe it will be) so what. It is ONLY a TV show, the money is not coming from the licence fee and the experience will improve the talent of all those involved (whatever happens).

I am sure that TGP will not be made for ever (although I hope it will be on for a few years at least). So why don't you just watch an other channel while it is on and wait for the next thing that Richard Herring makes (perhaps you might like it better).

Alternatively buy a video of some old FOF and TMWRNJ stuff and watch that to see the clasic stuff you love.

But whatever you do. Please stop writting in here that you don't like it because WE ALL KNOW NOW. Subject: Re: To Steven
Posted By 'Steven' on Fri Oct 27 21:47:53 BST 2000:

I completely understand Desmond, but do you not see the two facedness in this? It is ok for almost the entire forum to go on about the 11 o clock show being bad, for a year, over and over. Yet it is not ok for me to bad mouth Time Gentlemen Please, perhaps if the entire forum joined in it would be deemed acceptable? Since that is how the media works now, waves of unanimous trend. There are 11 o clock show writers on here as well as writers for TGP and since you say previous efforts should not be regarded then the 11OCS don't deserve any criticism either, and that is quite clearly wrong, and is not happening here. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'biggot' on Sat Oct 28 12:31:34 BST 2000:

Steven, let it go. We will not think you the weaker for it. Subject: Re: To Steven
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Sat Oct 28 13:34:17 BST 2000:

Actually, Steven, you are arguing to the wrong point yet again:

The 11OCS discussions have provoked both pros & cons for that series - some Forum members have said they do enjoy the show; people have been criticised for just taking it as an opportunity for slagging off the writers & not knowing anything about the production constraints; & others have tried to be constructive (such as by suggesting jokes to send in etc). On the whole, people have not enjoyed the show but individuals are not just repeating the same argument over & over in every posting - there has been plenty of variety in the threads if you take the trouble to read some of them.

As for 'two-facedness' that is plainly untrue; I have seen postings from people stating that they do not like TGP, so the Forum is not just being sycophantic because they know RH & AM read their messages. What Desmond Hoo & others are now commenting on is the way you are employing total overkill on the subject.

Fine, you don't like TGP but you have been taking the opportunity to say this at great length for about the last three weeks. I think most of us know your opinion. And if you do want to keep watching it hoping it will grow on you, great, but please stop the detailed running commentary as it's just repetition (honest!).

Also, with the 11OCS discussions, the main criticisms have been centred on the quality of the show & whether or not people find it funny. In your case, although you initially stated your opinions on TGP, you quickly moved to a more personal attack onto Richard Herring (whether or not you see it as such) because it is different work to his previous shows, which you enjoyed. Perhaps part of is 'harmless banter, Martin' on your part but although you couch your postings with phrases such as 'respect' you really do come across as wanting to get one over on RH & AM. They've answered your initial questions but must be getting fed up with this now. Are you really just trying to annoy them so they stop posting to the Forum?

I can see you like putting your point across but things are really getting rather acrimonious now. Rather than trying to monopolise the subject, how about leaving things for a few weeks (say until around Xmas) until you've seen more of the series & then giving one further update on what you think then? That'll take the heat out of the situation & give you the chance the sit back & give a more considered response based on several shows at once. I'm sure that will be much more interesting to read than this continual backbiting. that's occurring at present.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Steven' on Sat Oct 28 14:27:03 BST 2000:

Hehe Jeanette, it feels like you're trying to argue your point against some single minded ogre, which maybe I do come across as now. But Herring and Murray come across as that to me. Anyway, yes, I completely agree with you, I feel embarassed for having gone on about it for so long, but this all happened before with the Corpses slagging it off after only 2 eps were filmed, and I was in your place telling the Corpses to stop and leave it until the finished thing was on the air. So it seems very strange to me how I've no taken the place of the Corpses and other people have taken my place, and Herring and Murray are much in the same position. Anyway, yes I will stop my badly constructed arguments, as on this forum I can't really argue very well, or get my point across, it just seems futile, and having the writers condescend themselves upon my useless argument makes me ever more mad. But as I said I will leave it, I am probably more in the wrong than anybody, but I still do feel that this is very similar to the 11 OCS scandal that everyone participated in for months and months and is still not letting up, I can't help but feel a sense of inequality in that respect. I don't feel I have really attacked anybody, at least as I recall, maybe you're reading too much into it. Anyway, I'll try to shut up now, the show is better than Harry Enfields half hour of strained entrails that is on before, so I at least should be grateful for that. But I still feel cheated of a great comedy show. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'biggot' on Sat Oct 28 14:42:14 BST 2000:

YOU LET IT GO!! I WAS WRONG! YOU ARE WEAK! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Sun Oct 29 12:06:30 GMT 2000:

A question I should know the answer to - but I've suddenly realised I don't.

Is the landlord ever referred to by name or is he always just "Guv" or "Bullethead"? Does he even have a name? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Sun Oct 29 12:10:01 GMT 2000:

Landlord's name.
Not so far.
Nor does the Old Geezer.
The huge man is called Leslie and I'll let you all into a secret that the tiny lady is also called Lesley (they have so much in common)
Nor does the pub have a name.
Only ever referred to as the pub by the chemical works. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Sun Oct 29 15:57:56 GMT 2000:

Are you going to reveal his name - the old birth certificate bit? Or will we never know? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Sun Oct 29 23:41:07 GMT 2000:

*Hullo*, I'm still watching it, but haven't been posting to this thread (although reading it), as my opinion has been veering between neutral (i.e., not a bad show, some good dialogue and ideas - look forward to the *internet* ep) to not enjoying it (still looks a little rough at the edges) and (after yesterdays meet) back towards neutral again. It has nothing to do with my earlier postings and the responses given - and I know none of this makes sense (even to me) but after reading Stephens illogical twatting.......

(I'll bet you're all now thinking that I'm confused.....not THAT confused obviously.....) Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Caroline' on Tue Oct 31 00:17:38 GMT 2000:

Oh deaar.
Tonight's episode was pretty much joke free.
Shame, really.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Oct 31 09:58:46 GMT 2000:

oh!

I thought it was blinding!

Seriously. I did enjoy it.

"All 3 of us are looking at a pair of tits" stuck in my mind!
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Big Leslie' on Tue Oct 31 10:35:50 GMT 2000:

>"All 3 of us are looking at a pair of tits" stuck in my mind!

"I like a woman with white streaks in her hair"... Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'kinder surprise' on Tue Oct 31 15:56:32 GMT 2000:

Oh that's just vile. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Tue Oct 31 16:09:46 GMT 2000:

What does it mean? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Oct 31 17:27:29 GMT 2000:

>What does it mean?

The reference to white streaks...

...streaks in paintwork can be removed by running the paintbrush over the work a 2nd time. Did you know that?

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiohead' on Wed Nov 1 00:44:55 GMT 2000:

TGP = KID A Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Wed Nov 1 21:49:09 GMT 2000:

Hello, vbored anyone like to entertain me with a widly amusing story/crossexamine my sexuality/criticie my life? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean' on Wed Nov 1 22:07:01 GMT 2000:

RHC - Have you heard the rumour about the new Richard Herring/Al Murray vehicle about a pub chef who runs out of a popular fresh herb every week and has to shout out 'Thyme Gentlemen, Please', with hilarious consequences? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Wed Nov 1 23:19:23 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about closing time in very selective bar for male only vegetables? Called Time Gentlemen Peas.


Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'paul twist (ashamed)' on Wed Nov 1 23:26:23 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about training a wild bear to be a friendly, helpful, problem-solving cuddly pal?

Tame Gentle Ben, Please Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Thu Nov 2 00:42:25 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about the trial of the upper-class fork-makers

Tine Gentlemen Pleas Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean (more ashamed)' on Thu Nov 2 00:47:18 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about the entymologists touring Cumbria who find a particular town that has some excellent specimens

Fine Kendalmen Fleas Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean (even more ashamed)' on Thu Nov 2 01:01:06 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about a group of dental students who lose the means of entry to their dwellings and proceed to track them down - with hilarious consequences.

Nine Dentalmen Keys Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean (given up being ashamed)' on Thu Nov 2 01:04:07 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle about the London Mayor who's a pushover for a sob story & often gets asked to give written undertakings for humanitarian reasons - with hilarious consequences.

Sign Gentle Ken, Please!

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean (what is ashamed, anyway)' on Thu Nov 2 01:08:33 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle whereby, after the discovery of a piece of text that was left out of the bible, a new verse appears in the latest reprint. It concerns a wax-seller who is cured of his affliction.

Blind Candlemen Sees! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean (I've given up putting things in brackets' on Thu Nov 2 01:17:38 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which some small plastic dolls that can't speak are invited round to an afternoon repast by other small plastic dolls that cannot speak - with hilarious consequences.

Mime Action Men Teas. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette (It's OK for you but I'm getting up at 6)' on Thu Nov 2 01:36:26 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which US landords are prevented from raising their apartment fees more than 10 cents per annum.

Dime Rentalmen Freeze Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Ashamed' on Thu Nov 2 11:09:38 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which Jamie Oliver gets a job in the pub kitchen and creates a new menu

Thyme Lentil Hen Peas

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'I'm so sorry...' on Thu Nov 2 13:36:47 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which a poet, a psychiatric patient and a vicar form their own law firm - with hilarious consequences

Rhyme, Mental and Priest Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Je ne regrette rien' on Thu Nov 2 15:38:40 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which a sex-starved woman calls up an escort agency in Thailand and asks for 'Thai Genital Men, Please'. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Nov 2 15:45:16 GMT 2000:

...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which 2 bored lexicographers enjoy thinking up triplets of unrelated words that sound a bit like "Time, Gentlemen Please": "Crime, Bethlehem Trees".
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Thu Nov 2 15:50:45 GMT 2000:

On 2nd thoughts, it would have better if that had said:



'...or the proposed Al Murray/Richard Herring vehicle in which 2 bored lexicographers enjoy thinking up triplets of unrelated words that sound a bit like "Time, Gentlemen Please":

"The Two Bored Lexicographers".' Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'No more!' on Thu Nov 2 16:09:33 GMT 2000:

>"The Two Bored Lexicographers".'

To be followed by a porno spin-off featuring a group of printers on holiday in Pamplona:

The Blue Gored Flexographers Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Thu Nov 2 16:11:32 GMT 2000:

Stop. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Thu Nov 2 16:16:42 GMT 2000:

Come back Steven. All is forgiven! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Thu Nov 2 17:49:35 GMT 2000:

Can of worms why do you mock me? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Thu Nov 2 19:33:59 GMT 2000:

I've applied for tickets for TGP (haven't got SKY). Any chance, Richard, of putting me and my girlfriend down as guests? The last time we went we were the last two people to get let in. It's a bit of a pisser when you've travelled 28 miles to be told you might not get in.

We've gone for Thursday December 14th (a meal would be nice to).

Gee
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean' on Thu Nov 2 19:45:44 GMT 2000:

An indian chef insists on the best possible ingredients for his curries - with hilarious consequences.

Fine Cardamom Seeds. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean' on Thu Nov 2 19:53:55 GMT 2000:

A story about a motorway cop and his everyday life - with hilarious consequences.

Fine If a Man Speeds.

OR

After being beaten into submission a well-known comic leaves in a hurry.

Tame funnyman Flees.

OR

A gourmet chef is recruited by a scout-troop to do their meal preparation and delights them with some excellent indian drinks.

Fine Billycan Teas.

OR

The story of a plant missed by ordinary people but noticed by an alternative medical practitioner.

Bine Herbalman Sees.

A man who lives in a pine-forest who collects the bits that fall off the trees always finds somebody to help - with hilarious consequences.

Pine Needleman Deeds. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Thu Nov 2 19:56:29 GMT 2000:

Rhyming abstention starts now Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'John McEnroe' on Thu Nov 2 19:58:10 GMT 2000:

>Come back Steven. All is forgiven!

You cannot be serious!
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Thu Nov 2 20:20:10 GMT 2000:

Eve Pollard's daughter, Claudia, combines her mountaineering skills with a final trip to Cloisters

Climb Winkleman Skiis

OR

The cleaners employed to keep large statues' leg joints spotless

Grime Monumental Men Knees Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Fri Nov 3 08:03:27 GMT 2000:

>Oh deaar.
>Tonight's episode was pretty much joke free.
>Shame, really.
>
Yes, I know you can't judge a show on one episode, but saw ep 8 last night on the repeat screening. *Fucking Shocking* as Ms Swahala might say....

...and no I wasn't out to pick faults or be critical, I decided to sit back and go with the flow. I never smiled, smirked, or sniggered let alone laughed. Just sat there in stunned silence.

Of course I understand that even great shows have weak episodes but this one was bloody terrible. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Fri Nov 3 09:44:09 GMT 2000:

I'm surprised you think that. I thought it was OK. Not the best, but not the worst either - some pretty good gags in there.
Did you see the first part? I thought it stood alone, but it was a conclusion to the week before's episode. Maybe that was confusing.
Have you seen any of the other episodes? There was quite a lot of character stuff in there.
Have you like other episodes?

grow your own frogs legs was something I was quite pleased with! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By george on Fri Nov 3 23:44:53 GMT 2000:

>I'm surprised you think that. I thought it was OK. Not the best, but not the worst either - some pretty good gags in there.
>Did you see the first part? I thought it stood alone, but it was a conclusion to the week before's episode. Maybe that was confusing.

First of all, I understood clearly what had happened in ep.7, so I was not confused by it. The scene was set for a good follow-up and if anything, ep.8 felt like a lame get-out. I was just saddened by the fact that the potential demolition of the pub could have been a great plot development - or turned into a running theme, it would have been interesting to see how the regulars and staff would fight the closure. (Not trying to second-guess you at all - honest!)

Oh, and it still feels and looks rushed, and played to the studio audience, like the French archaeologists poor delivery and outright nervousness, is there a prompt board, or autocue on set? The ensemble playing out of *the pact* was dreadful, worse than an amateur revue. Sorry, that really is the nicest I can say about it, and the audience seemed to be applauding more loudly than they were laughing - that usually is an ominous sign that something is wrong. I understand that it probaly came across differently on the studio floor.

>Have you seen any of the other episodes? There was quite a lot of character stuff in there.
>Have you like other episodes?
>
Ep.4 came across as the best executed episode (so far), with the introduction of Greg (as well as LL's nickname!) was superb. There was some great dialogue and performances helping to introduce the new characters (always difficult) and it was done really well. It really did seem to click.

>grow your own frogs legs was something I was quite pleased with!

Hmmm. Tadpoles+French person=frog joke.

*Sigh*, To paraphrase a certain duo, I'm not laughing Rich...but it does seem a shame. I can genuinely see where the effort has been put in. There are some great puns - I can not deny that, (*Moon and Boy*, from ep.1 is a personal favourite), some fine dialogue (Greg talking about The Queen of Hearts in ep.4 still makes me smile). At the end of the day, overall, TGP isn't bad, but isn't great either, hence my mixed feelings about the show. But I will continue following it. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'paul twist' on Sat Nov 4 01:09:21 GMT 2000:

To be honest, this week's episode was one of my least favourite episodes so far. There were three or four points that made me laugh (which made it worth watching), but there have been better. I did like it, it just seemed weaker than the past few. Paul Putner was excellent, though. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Sat Nov 4 15:23:25 GMT 2000:

Is there a TGP episode guide on the net somewhere? One which lists titles, I mean. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By Richard Herring on Sun Nov 5 11:34:13 GMT 2000:

I think destroying the pub in episode 8 would be a bit early myself.
Don't agree with your assessments, George. No there is no autocue.

It's not French and frogs that is funny. It's the idea of tadpoles being grow your own frogs legs. A lot more than just a frog joke - also Terry's misunderstanding that this would be something a French person wanted.

It's not one of my fave episodes, (it was one if the hardest to write) but I think it's OK and had some great moments. But thanks for the response
R Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By sheep on Tue Nov 7 00:21:38 GMT 2000:

Just seen Fawkes/Off, which I also saw being recorded. Is the cut scene of Steve replenishing the small wife's glass of wine (with Guv distracting Lesley with the winching equipment) going to be redone in another episode? Thought it was a wonderful idea. I think it works well - was it cut purely on time reasons or camera work or did you think it just didn't work? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jon' on Tue Nov 7 15:25:09 GMT 2000:

Have any terrestrial (UK) channels shown an interest in TGP yet?

Have they shown an interest in Harry Enfield's show, either? Wonder why it's going out on video so soon... Subject: Re: TGP stranded
Posted By 'Concerned about getting in' on Wed Nov 8 13:50:43 GMT 2000:

I've got tickets for tomorrow's recording. How soon do I have to get to the studios to make sure of getting in? Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Wed Nov 8 15:20:18 GMT 2000:

Get there ahead of time because lots of buggers will be walking straight in while you might have to wait. If you're really unlucky the doorman will rip the bottom off your ticket and you will only get in if someone don't show up. In short, get there as early as possible. Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Gee' on Wed Nov 8 15:21:48 GMT 2000:

should have read the less cockney "doesn't show up" Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Wed Nov 8 16:08:19 GMT 2000:

>I've got tickets for tomorrow's recording. How soon do I have to get to the studios to make sure of getting in?

Getting there sometime between 5.30 & 6pm is usually ample time in advance; the recordings have been moved to a larger studio (over 500 seats) in the last few weeks. Wrap up warmly, as it's pretty windy there. They have promised to let us in early if it's raining but be prepared for the weather anyway!

Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Fri Nov 10 00:29:36 GMT 2000:

Really enjoyed tonight's recording. All I will say is Fact Hunt II - the Big Hunt! Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Phil' on Fri Nov 10 13:29:22 GMT 2000:

A sitcom about a butler who, in his spare time, runs a small fish-hiring agency.

Brine Rentalman Jeeves.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean' on Sat Nov 11 00:40:07 GMT 2000:

>A sitcom about a butler who, in his spare time, runs a small fish-hiring agency.
>
>Brine Rentalman Jeeves.
>

I think what you've done, Phil, is confused the word Brine (which is salt water) with that well-known freshwater-fish Bream but with a bit of rewording it won't show - hold on! that's the punchline to some joke about a hunchback and a tailor - I'm not confused!
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Phil' on Sat Nov 11 10:22:31 GMT 2000:

>>A sitcom about a butler who, in his spare time, runs a small fish-hiring agency.
>>
>>Brine Rentalman Jeeves.
>>
>
>I think what you've done, Phil, is confused >the word Brine (which is salt water) with >that well-known freshwater-fish Bream

DOH!

I did know that, honest. Just being wilfully stupid for the purposes of this witticism

> but with a bit of rewording it won't show -> hold on! that's the punchline to some joke >about a hunchback and a tailor - I'm not >confused!
>

HUNCHBACK: Is this a joke?
TAILOR: Yes, but with a bit of rewording it won't show.
Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Radiator Head Child' on Sat Nov 11 10:25:58 GMT 2000:

lol, keep it up I'm so bored I'll laugh at anything Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'The Bean' on Sat Nov 11 14:08:19 GMT 2000:

Okay then, you asked for it:

A man turns up to a factory to do a time and motion study, only to find them on their afternoon break, with hilarious consequences:

Timed Working Men Teas



Subject: Re: TGP strand
Posted By 'Jeanette' on Mon Nov 13 18:30:54 GMT 2000:

I'm finding 'bean-faced' a most useful new insult... Te he