No one has asked, in any sincerity - is the NME finished? What with IPC selling out to AOL Time Warner? They won't prop it up for long, surely, they'll reposition it, in a rolling stone style, move NME.com into AOL, fill the paper mag with links to internet stuff, the way they ruined Time magazine etc etc (plus surely, as was pointed out in some newspaper, no respectable company will miss the opportunity to cross-promote Warner stuff in the mag)

Will we care? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Tue Aug 7 02:47:03 BST 2001:

If the NME would only get some good writers, it wouldn't be finished. When Steve Sutherland was editor the attitude seemed to be smug, aloof and condescending - but at least the writers' opinions had some authority. Now they hype the Strokes and Starsailor, make Muse single of the week and charge ever-more for a small, poorly-written paper. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mike4SOTCAA on Tue Aug 7 18:44:30 BST 2001:

That bit about Michael Jackson's new LP in News this week - ten years ago, this would be a quasi-satirical piece; I've a horrible feeling this is serious though. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By mrdiscopop on Wed Aug 8 10:12:42 BST 2001:

>It's not corporate censorship! It's Woolworths - they have a limited shelf space and specific kind of customer. Stocking records that that kind of customer likes will increase their revenue. That is unlikely to be anything by The Strokes.


On the other hand, Woolworths insisted that Virgin supplied them with an edited version of the new Janet Jackson album. They wouldn't carry the stickered explicit lyrics version (she says 'fuck' once, then groans a lot). But they sell Eminem and Dr Dre. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Fri Aug 10 13:58:40 BST 2001:

> But they sell Eminem and Dr Dre.

Does anyone know how well censored versions of albums sell? Where you have two editions which come out simultaneously, one 'Parental Advisory' and the other just consisting of one long beep, are their sales equal, or does the rude one dwarf the innocuous one? Who buys the censored ones anyway? Is it just grannies who want to ensure that their loved ones aren't exposed to any filth, unaware that junior has got an uncensored tape copy off his mates anyway? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Fri Aug 10 14:31:20 BST 2001:

I bought the censored version of Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet from the sales the other day, without realising that's what it was. It would be more useful it the censored versions bore a sticker saying "CHILD ADVISORY: NO RUDE LYRICS" to warn us, rather than the other way round. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Prep Gwarlek 3b' on Fri Aug 10 17:29:23 BST 2001:

Things would be a lot better if the cuss-words were replaced with humourous replacements, a la Amiga Power.

"I want to ("Pet" - ed) you like an animal."
- Nine Inch Nails, Closer.

Or not, obviously.

Still, any others in an attempt to keep this thread going before the inevitable? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Lizard "Yeah Boy!" Scum' on Fri Aug 10 18:03:45 BST 2001:

>I bought the censored version of Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet from the sales the other day, without realising that's what it was. It would be more useful it the censored versions bore a sticker saying "CHILD ADVISORY: NO RUDE LYRICS" to warn us, rather than the other way round.

Are you telling me you can get cencored PE albums, well flip the game if the games sayin' nuthin'. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'leighton' on Fri Aug 10 18:59:59 BST 2001:

my favourite blunder was the introduction of the vacuous 'Whats on your ringtone?' feature, which received plently of complaint/ridicule... which was then followed by a Premium rate rigtones service... why bother removing the porno phones lines and apologising for that.... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Sun Aug 12 00:53:42 BST 2001:

Andrew Collins? Is it true you and other NME blokes used to stand over poor, pretty, little Gina Morris 'helping' her write her features (while she wept) because none of you felt she was good enough? This is going way back to 91-93.

And then, bizarrely, La petite Morris's normally incomprehensible writing (non) style changed literally overnight and became fluid and actually quite readable (shock!). Was that because you guys had hindered her all along? Or was it that she actually learnt how to write from listening to you?

Just curious. I was into the music press because of my job at the time and as I came into contact with many of the writers and heard all the gossip, it was one of the many things that intrigued me.

By the way, are you married?


Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O'Toes' on Sun Aug 12 08:06:18 BST 2001:

>And then, bizarrely, La petite Morris's

Are you sure you didn't just read about it in Private Eye? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Sun Aug 12 14:29:12 BST 2001:

>>And then, bizarrely, La petite Morris's
>
>Are you sure you didn't just read about it in Private Eye?

Huh? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Drucius' on Mon Aug 13 01:55:40 BST 2001:

Blimey, I come back from two weeks in Leeds and the NME thread's still going strong. Makes the heart swell so it does..... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bob Honey' on Mon Aug 13 13:54:50 BST 2001:

I've never heard anything by the White Stripes. God, I wish I was dead.

Anyone got any comments on them? Their star-studded gig was round the corner from my house, but I didn't go. And apparently, they aren't brother and sister, but ex-husband and ex-wife. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Mon Aug 13 14:02:08 BST 2001:

>I've never heard anything by the White Stripes. God, I wish I was dead.
>
>Anyone got any comments on them?

Very good cover of Captain Beefheart's "The Party of Special Things to do". It could be said that if you've heard one White Stripes song, you've heard them all.

>And apparently, they aren't brother and sister, but ex-husband and ex-wife.

Mother-son will be the next rumour.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Mon Aug 13 14:52:51 BST 2001:

>Secondly, how the badger's nadgers is Blur's 'Blur' album 'wilfully anti-commercial'? Yes, they moved away from their chirpy Britpop-isms, but their (well, Graham's) love of lo-fi was never a secret. 'Blur' is so 'wilfully uncommercial' that it contains the no.1 single 'Beetlebum' AND the so-successful-at-breaking-the-U.S.-it-was-even-on-The-Simpsons 'Song 2'.

I do see your point, but at the same time I don't believe that success and 'commerciality' are necessarily entwined. I wouldn't call "Blur" _wilfully_ uncommercial - if that title belongs to any of their albums then it belongs to "13" (and arguably, in the context of the time that it was released, "Modern Life Is Rubbish"), but there was a distinct uncommerciality in its intent. The fact that some singles from it sold well does not necessarily turn it into a contrived attempt to cynically corner a market - it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for a Clinic single to somehow dominate the airwaves, capture the public's imagination and scale the top of the charts, but it would still be a 'difficult' record rather than a 'commercial' one.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 13 18:52:05 BST 2001:

"it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for a Clinic single to somehow dominate the airwaves, capture the public's imagination and scale the top of the charts, but it would still be a 'difficult' record rather than a 'commercial' one."

But it'd be great if it did, wouldn't it? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Mon Aug 13 21:22:25 BST 2001:

Pretty much agree with all of that, TJ. I'm just annoyed at the increasing trend in NME music reviews towards throwing such statements in as 'facts', when they actually contain, as you've demonstrated, scope for debate. Or, in the case of the Catatonia / Robbie Williams comparison, are just blatantly wrong. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Crime' on Mon Aug 13 21:32:04 BST 2001:

>"it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for a Clinic single to somehow dominate the airwaves, capture the public's imagination and scale the top of the charts, but it would still be a 'difficult' record rather than a 'commercial' one."
>
>But it'd be great if it did, wouldn't it?

If Clinic got on TOTPs the kids would shit themselves, I mean that Op room get up freaks me out. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Helen on Mon Aug 13 22:47:00 BST 2001:

Clinic are fantastic, and I'm not sure that they always wear masks anymore. My sister saw them supporting Radiohead last year, and I'm sure she said they were naked, facially speaking.
Incidently, I got an e-mail from the NME mailing list today with a "secret" url for NME radio ( http://www.ginger.com/core/audio/nme if anyone's interested). So far I've heard DJ Pied Piper, Mis-teeq, Limp Bizkit and Angelic. Christ Almighty. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Tue Aug 14 00:43:49 BST 2001:

They had their surgical gear stolen for a brief period but I think they replaced it - they were be-masked at Reading '2000. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stocky' on Tue Aug 14 16:31:59 BST 2001:

>They had their surgical gear stolen for a brief period but I think they replaced it - they were be-masked at Reading '2000.

and what a fantastic set that was. Much better than limp Bizcunt who were on the Main stage at the same time, yet if i recall correctly the NME said that Limp was the best band there.
Because they had confetti. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Tue Aug 14 18:18:07 BST 2001:

What ever did happen to Gina Morris? I'm sure it's not true she got her stuff written by the other staff - she went on to Select, and was a fairly prominent writer. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Tue Aug 14 22:44:00 BST 2001:

Bless you - as if writing for Select makes you a 'prominent writer'. And as if the fact that Morris went on to Select would entirely negate the fact she got help with her writing at NME.

Just because people write, or wrote, for NME / Melody Maker / Select, doesn't mean they could write well. The poor editors always had their work cut out for them, and could make an unreadable piece reasonably coherent.

Some writers were atrocious. I won't name names - I'll leave that to you lot. Often, they were weirdly proud of their lack of writing talent, because it meant they were just 'real fans', 'kids', and not anything like the dreaded 'jaded, old hacks' they accused the good writers of being.

Everyone at the time knew the guys at NME used to 'help' Morris with her writing . . . because she used to tell absolutely everyone and anyone about it afterwards. She didn't actually want their help, if I remember rightly. But it was felt that she needed it.

And then, as many of us noticed, her writing literally changed overnight.

Was it because the guys had been holding her back all along? Was there a showdown where she told them to stop? Or was it that they finally taught her how to string a sentence together?

Funny how you have to repeat yourself on this forum, and even then people will not quite get the point. Oh well.

Oi, Andrew, where are you? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Prep Gwarlek 3b' on Tue Aug 14 22:55:27 BST 2001:

>Incidently, I got an e-mail from the NME mailing list today with a "secret" url for NME radio ( http://www.ginger.com/core/audio/nme if anyone's interested). So far I've heard DJ Pied Piper, Mis-teeq, Limp Bizkit and Angelic. Christ Almighty.

Or, by the look of that URL, Chris (Evans) Almighty. DYSWIDT? Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Good. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Tue Aug 14 23:31:16 BST 2001:

But did the "guys" help with her singing on the early Stereolab singles? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Wed Aug 15 10:58:11 BST 2001:

>Oi, Andrew, where are you?

Sorry, I thought this place had been closed down.

I was features editor at the time of Gina's emergence at the NME. She was from Manchester ergo she was supercool to us soft southerners, and she knew lots of famous people like Tim Booth and Stereolab. I must admit I shamefully reacted against her initially - thought she was being "groomed" by the live desk (ie Steve Lamacq and Simon Williams) possibly, just possibly because they also fancied her - they are only human after all. The live desk was like a little republic within the NME, governed from the pub, where Lamacq and co would plot the downfall of music made by old people.

Anyway, I told Gina - after a try-out if I remember - that she wasn't good enough to write features. I was a bit of a wanker actually, and told her so in front of other staffers (I didn't have a little private office - no excuse though). Then I relented, feeling rather guilty, and warmed to her, and gave her a bit of features work - easy stuff, like "doing the singles" with a visiting pop star (basically glorified transcription). So you could say that after Simon and Steve had bestowed loads of attention on her, I did the same. I was trying to be a constructive, helpful features editor instead of a prejudiced closed-shop.

After I left in 92, Gina came into her own and displayed a natural skill with interviewing famous people, and under Sutherland, she was given cover stories and everything. Good for her.

We were woefully short on female writers (it's been a traditional problem at the NME), and so what if there was some "effort" expended to nurture Gina's style? James Brown used to tell me how to write when I started. There are things you can learn, it's not a load of fucking tortured artists in garretts searching for their muse. Or it shouldn't be.

Is Gina still Stewart Lee's other half? I'm out of the Hello! loop.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Wed Aug 15 11:29:42 BST 2001:

Andrew: Don't worry about Lloyd Cole Knew My Father (can't remember on which thread you mentioned your faint anxiety). If the Soho Theatre warm-up (rather than Loose Ends, but that's rubbish anyway) is anything to go by, you'll storm it in Edinburgh.

"Not Much Erasure". Love it. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Andrew Collins on Wed Aug 15 13:04:53 BST 2001:

>"Not Much Erasure". Love it.

You are very kind. I am now off to break a leg. See you all in Scotland on Saturday.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Strong Satirical Stuff' on Wed Aug 15 15:04:15 BST 2001:

>>They had their surgical gear stolen for a brief period but I think they replaced it - they were be-masked at Reading '2000.
>
>and what a fantastic set that was. Much better than limp Bizcunt who were on the Main stage at the same time, yet if i recall correctly the NME said that Limp was the best band there.
>Because they had confetti.

....for brains?

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Thu Aug 16 11:38:34 BST 2001:

>>I bought the censored version of Public Enemy's Fear Of A Black Planet from the sales the other day, without realising that's what it was.

Thinking about it, I also bought a US import of the KLF's White Room album, including the CD single of Justified And Ancient, which I was very pleased with. Until I played it, and found that What Time Is Love now starts "Kick out the jams rekcufrehtom!"

Very depressing. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Thu Aug 16 11:54:26 BST 2001:

That happens on my copy of the UK-released CD as well, which I bought on its release in March 1991. So presumably the radio edit is on all the album versions. Bizarrely, the full uncensored version (5'24") turns up on, of all things, Now Dance 90, which also featured 12" versions of Bassomatic's Fascinating Rhythm, LFO's LFO, You're Walking by Electribe 101 and The Young Disciples' Get Yourself Together. Yes, alright so it was fleshead out with crap from Technotronic (a megamix - erk), and The Adventures Of Stevie V. But - y'know - found it in a bargain bin for three quid. Can't say fairer etc. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Aug 16 12:47:01 BST 2001:

Trying to find the ideal copy of each KLF song? You'll be at it for years. They certainly made the most of the period before the multi-format ruling. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Lizard Scum' on Thu Aug 16 18:28:08 BST 2001:

>Trying to find the ideal copy of each KLF song? You'll be at it for years. They certainly made the most of the period before the multi-format ruling.

Does anyone remember those Deep Heat 2LP comps, they were actually quite good, one side would have KLF & brit stuff, then one side Nightmares on Wax & De la Soul, only prob is I can never find the good ones (about 15 were done the further away from 89 they got the shitter)

I've got a version of "Kick Out The Jams" by the MC5 which starts "KOTJs... Brothers and sisters", it's on a sampler from 73ish, I think it's the version MARRS sampled for Pump Up The Volume Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Thu Aug 16 18:43:34 BST 2001:

I had a promo 'clean' copy of a 2 Live Crew compilation sent to me once, I kid you not. It was just like the Mark & Lard parody of censored Dre/Eminem tracks. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Lizard "Yeah Boy!" Scum' on Thu Aug 16 18:59:04 BST 2001:

>I had a promo 'clean' copy of a 2 Live Crew compilation sent to me once, I kid you not. It was just like the Mark & Lard parody of censored Dre/Eminem tracks.

On one of those Tip Sheet type cds there was a edit of "So Watcha Gonna Do Now" by PE. "Talkin that gangster Zshup, talkin that drive by Zshup" Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Aug 17 09:10:13 BST 2001:

>"it isn't beyond the realms of possibility for a Clinic single to somehow dominate the airwaves, capture the public's imagination and scale the top of the charts, but it would still be a 'difficult' record rather than a 'commercial' one."
>
>But it'd be great if it did, wouldn't it?



Er, it did happen. The Second Line? That was pretty ubiquitous. I think being a Levi's ad jingle and getting heavy radio play counts as breaking the mainstream.

(Never quite got the constant Velvets comparisons with Clinic, when that single sounds so much like Can that Damo Suzuki could collect the royalties.)
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Fri Aug 17 11:37:55 BST 2001:

>(Never quite got the constant Velvets comparisons with Clinic, when that single sounds so much like Can that Damo Suzuki could collect the royalties.)
>

It sounded a lot like "Requiem Pour Un Con" by Serge Gainsbourg to me.


Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Fri Aug 17 12:18:24 BST 2001:

>
>>(Never quite got the constant Velvets comparisons with Clinic, when that single sounds so much like Can that Damo Suzuki could collect the royalties.)
>>
>
>It sounded a lot like "Requiem Pour Un Con" by Serge Gainsbourg to me.

Well, only the drums... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Fri Aug 17 12:44:48 BST 2001:

>>It sounded a lot like "Requiem Pour Un Con" by Serge Gainsbourg to me.
>
>Well, only the drums...

And the off-beat 'pfft' noises, and some of the French lyrics resemble Clinic's gibberish words (the way Serge says "cet air la" sounds like the bit where Ade sings "say dira cumma cum"), and that funny electric organ noise in the middle of "Requiem..." has a similar rhythm to the ex-Pure Morning boys' "dicki dicki de marmalard" (or whatever it is they're saying).

No-one has ever agreed with me on this, though, so I don't expect anyone to start now, but I remain convinced it was a strong influence.

Someone's going to tell me now that the lyrics to The Second Line aren't gibberish at all and are all proper English words I have embarrasingly misheard.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Sat Aug 18 14:53:07 BST 2001:

>We were woefully short on female writers (it's been a traditional problem at the NME

But you had Barbara Ellen and Miranda Sawyer. They're doing well for themselves. And, ooh, they're both quite fanciable, too. Hey! Funny that. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 20 12:59:31 BST 2001:

"But you had Barbara Ellen and Miranda Sawyer. They're doing well for themselves. And, ooh, they're both quite fanciable, too."

Swayer: yes. Ellen: no. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Groovy Miranda Swayer' on Mon Aug 20 15:11:53 BST 2001:

Barbara Ellens from Rutland, you know. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jac, the pale girl with the poster....' on Mon Aug 20 18:02:44 BST 2001:

>
>>"Not Much Erasure". Love it.
>
>You are very kind. I am now off to break a leg. See you all in Scotland on Saturday.

Well, no legs broken (no knickers thrown) and only 2 pages missed out. We enjoyed it so much we were quoting bits all the way home (including 3 hours stuck in the rain at Embra Airport waiting for our flight to finally board). Well done (and not that much recycled from the NUS talks either!). You really must improve your handwriting though, Andrew.... or should I say BA?

BTW the girls were all working for Kerrang! in those days... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jac' on Mon Aug 20 18:11:50 BST 2001:

>We were woefully short on female writers (it's been a traditional problem at the NME), and so what if there was some "effort" expended to nurture Gina's style?

I don't know why this is so, I know plenty of female writers who could/do write decent music stuff, they just all work for other mags. Certainly when I was training it was more the case that the NME was "unobtainable" because it was the NME (a holy grail, but not necessarily THE holy grail <g>), not because it was "a boy's club". I went off to Kerrang! who were very amenable to girls (!), then Raw, then Q/Empire/more! (geography being quite helpful in that combination). Maybe if I'd tried the NME it would have been worth it, but I never did. But then, I was a Sounds reader at the time...

I'm sorry I didn't stick with it as a career, in retrospect, but it does mean that I laughed at myself asking you lot to sign bits of paper yesterday... I recognised myself in about 3/4 of your show. Maybe that's why I wouldn't have made a good rock journo, I was always mentally more groupie than writer... everyone would have got 10 out of 10!

(If you do another show next year, I'll tell you the anecdote about B.G*l*e*p*e...) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 20 23:33:11 BST 2001:

Anyone know Kitty Empire's real name? My money's on it being Camilla or Pandora.

Anyway. Let's make a go of getting to 600 postings and beyond before this forum gets evicted. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Tue Aug 21 00:09:17 BST 2001:

>Barbara Ellens from Rutland, you know.

So am I. Which part's she from? (Yes, it's a small place, but there are at least two different towns) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Tue Aug 21 00:37:22 BST 2001:

>"But you had Barbara Ellen and Miranda Sawyer. They're doing well for themselves. And, ooh, they're both quite fanciable, too."
>
>Swayer: yes. Ellen: no.

The important bit wasn't how 'fanciable' they are, Jon mate, it was the 'Hm, funny that . . .' comment I made after it. I'd wondered if their fanciability factor stood their careers in good stead seeing as all the rock press commissioners were (probably still are) men when the lasses started. I only ask since according to Andrew Collins, being fanciable was what got Gina Morris work. Even though she wasn't considered good enough!

It makes me laugh but it's awful really. There must have been so many kids who wanted to write for the rock press (not now, of course) and little did they know that all they had to do was have a couple of boobs grafted on and turn up at IPC fluttering their lack of writing talent.

Anyone here rate any of the aforementioned as writers? Or are they just boring, old hacky fodder merchants? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Tue Aug 21 10:23:00 BST 2001:

>I've got a version of "Kick Out The Jams" by the MC5 which starts "KOTJs... Brothers and sisters", it's on a sampler from 73ish, I think it's the version MARRS sampled for Pump Up The Volume

Ooh.....now I listened to my copy of KOTJ last night, and there is a *very* obvious edit before "motherfuckers" (as a less obvious edit after, as the lead guitar kicks in) as if it's been edited back in from another source. IN fact it's so obvious I can't believe I never really noticed it before. Strange, as this is the 1991 remaster, so it would suggest that the original master tape has been cut to include the censorship.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bongofury' on Tue Aug 21 12:21:39 BST 2001:

>>I've got a version of "Kick Out The Jams" by the MC5 which starts "KOTJs... Brothers and sisters", it's on a sampler from 73ish, I think it's the version MARRS sampled for Pump Up The Volume
>
>Ooh.....now I listened to my copy of KOTJ last night, and there is a *very* obvious edit before "motherfuckers" (as a less obvious edit after, as the lead guitar kicks in) as if it's been edited back in from another source. IN fact it's so obvious I can't believe I never really noticed it before. Strange, as this is the 1991 remaster, so it would suggest that the original master tape has been cut to include the censorship.
>

My 1969 (ish) vinyl copy's got the obvious edit, 90's CD copy doesn't. (May be 1994, sleevenotes by Rob Tyner, big foldout poster inside.)
The "Brother's & sister's" is the 1st line of Brother JC Crawford's opening speech, hacked in to cover up motherfuckers. At the time of release, Hudsons & other US record chains refused to stock Jams (without the edit), so it may have been cut at the insistance of Elektra for later pressings.


Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jac' on Tue Aug 21 12:24:40 BST 2001:

>>"But you had Barbara Ellen and Miranda Sawyer. They're doing well for themselves. And, ooh, they're both quite fanciable, too."

>It makes me laugh but it's awful really. There must have been so many kids who wanted to write for the rock press (not now, of course) and little did they know that all they had to do was have a couple of boobs grafted on and turn up at IPC fluttering their lack of writing talent.

If I'd realised I'd have tried it. Of course I'd have had to wear more clothes... and dumb down the spelling/grammar... ;-)

>Anyone here rate any of the aforementioned as writers? Or are they just boring, old hacky fodder merchants?

I like Miranda Sawyer's book - Park and Ride. Made me laugh, although most of her journalism does that for less good reason. Barbara Ellen I've always had time for. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jack Welsby' on Tue Aug 21 14:04:55 BST 2001:

>Anyone know Kitty Empire's real name? My money's on it being Camilla or Pandora.

Christine, I think.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Momus' on Wed Aug 22 05:10:17 BST 2001:

Ahem. Good evening. I am Momus, and I appear only to make chilling announcements edged in black.

AOL Time Warner today acquired IPC.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'kip saunders' on Wed Aug 22 12:00:44 BST 2001:

Apropos of nothing else on this thread,The Auteurs put swearing IN to the single version of Light Aircraft On Fire but left such language off the album.

Any other examples of such cavalier attitude to getting playlisted? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Aug 22 12:35:34 BST 2001:

"The Auteurs"

Oh, don't, you'll set me off. Actually it's fun to note also, that the albums lyrics booklet contains the 'fucking' when i doesn't apear in the song. How strange.

Anyway the NME: it really is so shit this week that i almost think i've had enough finally. There was almost nothing that i wanted to read - less so than normal. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'kip saunders' on Wed Aug 22 12:46:16 BST 2001:

>"The Auteurs"
>
>Oh, don't, you'll set me off. Actually it's fun to note also, that the albums lyrics booklet contains the 'fucking' when i doesn't apear in the song. How strange.
>
>
The man's got a winning way with the word 'cunt' as well.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'John Connoly' on Wed Aug 22 12:50:21 BST 2001:

RIP NME. Gottabe. Come on, its not going to make it to Christmas, is it? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Wed Aug 22 15:03:36 BST 2001:

>My 1969 (ish) vinyl copy's got the obvious edit, 90's CD copy doesn't. (May be 1994, sleevenotes by Rob Tyner, big foldout poster inside.)
>The "Brother's & sister's" is the 1st line of Brother JC Crawford's opening speech, hacked in to cover up motherfuckers. At the time of release, Hudsons & other US record chains refused to stock Jams (without the edit), so it may have been cut at the insistance of Elektra for later pressings.

It wasn't cut from the master as such, but the master went missing at one point and they had to use a second gen master (recovered from the UK, I believe) for early reissues. I guess that either the master had turned up or the existing recording had been cleaned up digitally by the time of the reissue you refer to. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bobby' on Wed Aug 22 17:58:34 BST 2001:

almost amazing how they stoop to the 'Manics last ever gig?!' and 'White Stripes Split?' non-stories. The Manics have got a whole tour lined up and have given no indication that they are any more likely to split than at any other time. If this is their last gig I'll dedicate my whole life to pleasuring Fred Durst. What makes them think this sort of nonsense will do anything except deter people from buying the thing?

I note sales are down by another 8% from last year. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jack Welsby' on Wed Aug 22 18:36:35 BST 2001:

>I note sales are down by another 8% from last year.

On the same six-month period last year, yes. They are, however, up a very small amount (0.2%, or 139 copies) on the previous six months.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Thu Aug 23 18:07:18 BST 2001:

Jack - there's a lot of speculation going around about the future of the magazine- internet only, monthly, A4 glossy, closing down - from an informed position - what do you reckon'll actually happen? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Aug 23 18:37:13 BST 2001:

"They are, however, up a very small amount (0.2%, or 139 copies) on the previous six months."

If 0.2% = 139 copies, then total sale = 500X139 = 69500. But is that for the whole 6 months?

I expect the staff would be the last to know about the future of the paper. Anyway, old MM people tell me that they got rumours of closure regularly for years before the axe finally fell, and MM was far more sickly than NME has yet become. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jack Welsby' on Thu Aug 23 22:56:24 BST 2001:

>If 0.2% = 139 copies, then total sale = 500X139 = 69500. But is that for the whole 6 months?

The ABC circulation figure for the last six months is 70,142, up from 70,003 on the six months before that. (Rounding accounts for the discrepancy, no doubt.)

This figure refers in some way to how many copies each issue sells. I don't know exactly how it corresponds, but I would guess that it's some kind of average of the sales figure for each issue (a top-selling issue will shift around 90,000 copies at the moment, I think).

I would reply to Anonymous now, but I have to get up very early tomorrow morning (I'm working for NME.com at Reading) so I haven't time at the moment. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Fri Aug 24 12:05:00 BST 2001:

The latest form the AOL takeover is that IPC is scrapping most of its websites, and concentrating on half a dozen...including NME.com. So fears about the paper magazine just being used to prop up the internet arm could be coming true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internetnews/story/0,7369,541756,00.html Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Aug 24 14:31:22 BST 2001:

I heard NME was dipping below 70,000, whilst Uncut had the biggest increase over the last six months.

Which is a relief, because I thought it was going to do a Neon (whenever I switch allegiance to a new magazine, it usually goes tits up.)

And the NME was certainly a terrible boys' club when my ex was (briefly) working for them. She hated every single living minute of it. I thought she was being overdramatic, but I went out to some gig or other with her and a bunch of the other writers and, from the way they behaved, I thought she had a point. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Golly "bitter" Blenkinsop' on Sat Aug 25 23:54:10 BST 2001:

I used to desperately want to write for the music press. I had mates who were music journos and I looked up to them so much and envied them like fuck. Then I went out to a gig and late drinking with a group of NME, Melody Maker and Loaded writers. Only one of them was female, a close friend of mine at the time. And she just got her tits stared at all night. I was mostly ignored and/or patronised; being young, female and ugly. And decided get me the fuck out of here. Completely put me off. That and the music press getting worse and worse...

I now have no real career plans, other than to be a hugely successful writer blah blah. Thanks NME, for killing the only chance I had of making money out of writing about what I love. My website, my only outlet for my music writing and interviews, COSTS me money. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Sat Aug 25 23:57:34 BST 2001:

Golly, I still love you. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Sun Aug 26 00:15:05 BST 2001:

>And the NME was certainly a terrible boys' club

REALLY? No! What a coincidence. So, apparently, was the MM. Freaky . . .

I wonder, is there any point cheering the MM or NME's demise on the basis that these boys clubs are finished? Because haven't most of the (now middle aged) 'boys' clubsters simply moved on to other publications?

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Golly "fluffy" Blenkinsop' on Sun Aug 26 00:16:39 BST 2001:

I love you too.

Hang on, that message was just posted in your attempt to get this thread to 600 posts, wasn't it?

Never mind, I still love you, very much.

>Golly, I still love you.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 27 09:00:08 BST 2001:

It was posted to cheer you up. By reaching the target of 600 posts. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 27 13:58:50 BST 2001:

Anyway, why don't you ask Simon if he can help you out re: contacts? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Aug 27 13:59:52 BST 2001:

So good, I had to say it twice... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Golly "idiot" Ble' on Mon Aug 27 17:47:43 BST 2001:

>Anyway, why don't you ask Simon if he can help you out re: contacts?

Because it would be very awkward. We fell out and stopped speaking over 18 months ago and he's only just got to the point where he can offer a civil smile should we bump into each other on my rare forays to London.

I also hate asking for help. Silly girl, me. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Anonymous' on Tue Aug 28 17:30:54 BST 2001:

what's your website? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Tue Aug 28 17:52:56 BST 2001:

So..........if you could only buy one album this week from (a) Bjork (b) Slipknot (c) Mercury Rev or (d) The Strokes, which would it be?

(Personally, I'm going to buy all 4, but I just wanted to add the 575th post to this thread :-) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB' on Tue Aug 28 19:31:18 BST 2001:

>what's your website?

http://www.studybees.co.uk Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB' on Tue Aug 28 19:38:01 BST 2001:

>So..........if you could only buy one album this week from (a) Bjork (b) Slipknot (c) Mercury Rev or (d) The Strokes, which would it be?
>
I loved the Bjork album, the Strokes album is apparently going to be with me later this week, I've looked at the Slipknot album but it has nothing going for it bar the artwork. I'm going to buy the Mercury Rev one because I love them (and £9.99 plus 25% staff discount is too good to resist). The New Order album's good too.

First day sales at my branch of WH Smith (yes, I worked the Bank Holiday):

I sold two copies of the Strokes album - one to a 12 year old Japanese girl whose grandma paid for it, one to a 40 something gay man who also bought the Five album.

6 or 7 copies of the New Order album, to different ages and types of people.

2 copies of the Slipknot album (good design, awful lyrics, didn't bother listening to it at work). one to a scary gothman, one to a 14 year old boy who had to bring it back cos his mum wouldn't let him have it. I laughed in his face. A girl came in on sunday when we were pricing them up trying to get us to sell it to her or failing that let her touch it.

3 copies of Bjork to very "cool" looking young blokes - late 20s, designer facial hair. You know the sort. Why they shopped in WH Smith I dunno. I wouldn't normally buy records there.

And none of the other new releases.



Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By mrdiscopop on Wed Aug 29 10:59:32 BST 2001:

>Why they shopped in WH Smith I dunno. I wouldn't normally buy records there.

It's quite cheap, though. Especially compared to the evil 'V-shop'.

I bought Bjork, quite liked it. Hope it'll grow on me and that it's not another Homogenic.

Thought about buying the Strokes, but decided to borrow it from some cooler friends.

Then I went and looked at the Aaliyah section and got depressed.




>And none of the other new releases.
>
>
>
>

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 29 12:30:03 BST 2001:

"2 copies of the Slipknot album (good design, awful lyrics, didn't bother listening to it at work). one to a scary gothman, one to a 14 year old boy who had to bring it back cos his mum wouldn't let him have it. I laughed in his face."

Golly, now I really do love you... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'nick' on Wed Aug 29 13:18:14 BST 2001:

well done, golly! not only does the young slipknot fan have to suffer the indignity of returning an cd coz his mum said so, but he has to undergo further humiliation from a supercilious shop assistant in an unatractive, ill-fitting uniform looking down on him from behind the safety of her namebadge.
mind you, 14 year old slipknot fans are probably the only thing below WHSmiths shop assistants in the food chain...

once again, well done! that is, if you actually DID laugh in his face, which I doubt. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 29 13:22:21 BST 2001:

"well done, golly! not only does the young slipknot fan have to suffer the indignity of returning an cd coz his mum said so, but he has to undergo further humiliation from a supercilious shop assistant in an unatractive, ill-fitting uniform looking down on him from behind the safety of her namebadge."

Yeah, that's why it's so brilliant... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 29 13:24:37 BST 2001:

"mind you, 14 year old slipknot fans are probably the only thing below WHSmiths shop assistants in the food chain..."

What about Slipknot themselves? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB' on Wed Aug 29 13:29:26 BST 2001:

Clearly you've never met me, as I did indeed laugh in his face (shortly after asking if he'd listened to it and that was why he'd brought it back).

Feeling superior to the people who buy crap is the only good thing about my job, other than getting paid. Certainly selling books of "erotica" to dirty old men doesn't help me get through the day.

And if I was ONLY a shop assistant, you may be right. I work there on weekends and in holidays. The rest of the time I'm a student and writer. Whereas you are barely literate. Go figure.

>well done, golly! not only does the young slipknot fan have to suffer the indignity of returning an cd coz his mum said so, but he has to undergo further humiliation from a supercilious shop assistant in an unatractive, ill-fitting uniform looking down on him from behind the safety of her namebadge.
>mind you, 14 year old slipknot fans are probably the only thing below WHSmiths shop assistants in the food chain...
>
>once again, well done! that is, if you actually DID laugh in his face, which I doubt.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Aug 29 14:03:39 BST 2001:

From this week's NME: apparently they were entirely responsible for getting The Strokes bumped up from the Evening Session stage to the main stage at Reading. Hyping the Strokes and hyping themselves in the same article - I don't think things can get any lower. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB' on Wed Aug 29 14:23:35 BST 2001:

Oh yes it can. They managed to hype themselves on NME.com when reporting the death of Aaliyah. "AALIYAH has been killed in a plane crash in the BAHAMAS.

The R&B star, who recently appeared on the cover of NME, had been on the island filming a video."


>From this week's NME: apparently they were entirely responsible for getting The Strokes bumped up from the Evening Session stage to the main stage at Reading. Hyping the Strokes and hyping themselves in the same article - I don't think things can get any lower.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 29 16:34:22 BST 2001:

Unbelievable...

http://www.nme.com/NME/External/News/News_Story/0,1004,40904,00.html Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Aug 29 16:39:52 BST 2001:

Fucking hell... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'grrr' on Wed Aug 29 17:21:26 BST 2001:

">NME.com will be first with an exclusive Travis announcement.

If they're not going to announce that Travis will be nailed to a raft. set adrift on the Serpentine and then set alight on Nov 5th why should anyone give a fuck?

"Exciting Travis stories".

It's a fucking contradiction in terms. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Wed Aug 29 17:43:41 BST 2001:

Good golly miss Golly,

Saw your website. You have worked hard. Just wondered. Any reason for interviewing Andrew Collins? I always think it's a bit uninspired when TV presenters interview other TV presenters on TV, and it's equally naff when interviewers/journos interview other interviewers/journos in print. Are Collins and Sara Manning really such inspirational role models for you? Someone who hacks at J17? (Sorry, I don't remember her rock writing at all. What did she used to write in? Was she great?)

I guess you really do want to be a hack, don't you? Do you want to be a hack because you think it's exciting and glamorous?

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bobby' on Wed Aug 29 17:46:14 BST 2001:

A quick 5 minute trip to hte studybees.com site mentioned above proved it to be better written, better designed and better looking thean the increasingly ghastly nme.com - has any one ever tried to leave a message on Agst - apart from the dread feeling that you're only taling to Feeder fans furious than nme covers things like Hip Hop and things that aren't Feeder, it's a logistical nightmare.

And that news story that they've got a forthcoming news story! About Travis! Even Travis openly admit they don't think Travis are important. There was also a recent 'news' story about how the Stereophonics weren't playing Wales on the winter Arena tour - clearly timed to flog tickets to their Millenium Stadium gig... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bongofury' on Wed Aug 29 17:47:46 BST 2001:

>Oh yes it can. They managed to hype themselves on NME.com when reporting the death of Aaliyah. "AALIYAH has been killed in a plane crash in the BAHAMAS.
>
>The R&B star, who recently appeared on the cover of NME, had been on the island filming a video."
>
>
>>From this week's NME: apparently they were entirely responsible for getting The Strokes bumped up from the Evening Session stage to the main stage at Reading. Hyping the Strokes and hyping themselves in the same article - I don't think things can get any lower.
>
>

Well, did you expect them to give Trevor Nelson any credit for playing Aaliyah before anyone else, or Peely & Steve Lurpack a mention for playing "The Modern Age" when it was still a demo CD??

NME hacks (post '92): 90% self serving ex-media students who'll take credit for anything new to enhance their own reputations, then bugger off to work for the tabloids (& take all the credit for "Exclusives" on anyone they "discovered" 6 months earlier @ NME).
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB' on Wed Aug 29 20:50:36 BST 2001:

I've no real desire to be a hack, unless someone chooses to employ me as one freelance so I no longer have to work weekends at WH Smith/get a "proper" job when I finish college next June. I KNOW it's not exciting and glamorous. Never thought it would be. I enjoy writing, love music/film/books/TV/theatre etc and am really into interviewing people. That's why I started the site. Not to get free records (although it helps, because I can't afford them) or to hang out with showbiz types (been there, done that, it's bollocks).

I interviewed Andrew basically because I was curious. I didn't know how you get to write EastEnders etc, what he thought about stuff. I interviewed Sarra because I genuinely love Diary of a Crush and also she's the only writer for teen magazines that doesn't patronise the fuck out of people and I always appreciated that. And yes, she has influenced my writing to a certain extent. I used to work for Talkcast.com as an editorial assistant and had to work on Popboys.com (about boybands) which WAS condescending and overenthusiastic and all the other things I hated as a teenager (well, I was still 19 when I worked there)

I don't want to interview people because they're famous or because they've got something to plug (although I end up doing both anyway). I want to interview people because they intrigue me. I'm interested in characters. I'll find out in a week or so whether or not I'm going to be interviewing Timmy Mallett. Not because it's ironic or because he's a hasbeen. I fucking hate that ironic nostalgia. Because I'm genuinely interested and nobody asks him decent questions. And I want to. Nobody else has done a piece like mine on Paul Daniels, Louis Theroux much as I admired him didn't get that much out of him. People interest me.

I'd like to interview Lee and Herring and Eddie Izzard too. And Chris Morris. Nowt to do with them being famous, cool, or even funny. I just want to ask questions and get answers. Is that so bad?

NME don't ask questions that even THEY want answers to let alone the readers. Or so it comes across. So why bother? Fucking useless cunts. They're dropping everything bar the news and reviews on NME.com and dropping most of the reviewers.

Studybees.com isn't about making money, it's hopefully about good writing. Write something for it if you want. If it's crap, I'll bin it. :) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Wed Aug 29 21:01:53 BST 2001:

Write something for it if you want. If it's crap, I'll bin it. :)

Ooh, thanks. Unfortunately I'm busy earning money from my writing at the mo. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Aug 29 23:22:55 BST 2001:

Oh, *you* have a glamorous media career, do you?

Stop sneering, you pathetic sub-hack. Golly will achieve more than you dream of.

I love her. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'GB(H)' on Wed Aug 29 23:36:36 BST 2001:

There are more things in heaven and earth, Poops, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Don't be so fucking smug.

(PS Jon, love you too) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Poops' on Wed Aug 29 23:57:19 BST 2001:

>There are more things in heaven and earth, Poops, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Don't be so fucking smug.
>
>(PS Jon, love you too)

Oh dear, touchy little thing, aren't you? Thick people always are. Who said anything about being a hack anyway? There are other forms of writing besides hackery. You've really got to stop fixating on journalism as a career. It sucks. So moronic. So soul destroying. So full of no-talents. But then again . . .

I'm sorry. I'm playing with you. I will stop. Bye. (But God that 'more dreams in heaven and earth' bit did make me laugh and I plan to relish it for quite a while. Was it from 'Titanic' or is it some ludicrous 'Cher' lyric? Oh, dear. Bet you're incensed now. Chill, and good luck with your haven for 'good writing' Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rob Jones' on Thu Aug 30 00:46:01 BST 2001:

This thread's getting so bitter, and we're almost at 600! Shouldn't you be having a big party rather than sniping at each other?

Just so this post isn't worthless, here's a list of words/terms NME should stop using imo:

vital
life-affirming
astonishing
grindingly dull
really, (as a prefix to a sentence: eg 'really, that's all you need.' etc)
extraordinary
excellent
fuck
the
and

etc. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Zero' on Thu Aug 30 06:59:33 BST 2001:

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Zero' on Thu Aug 30 07:00:10 BST 2001:

>And we're almost at 600!

. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Six Hundred' on Thu Aug 30 07:01:51 BST 2001:

We are now.