The geezer from the NME thought it sounded like Neil Innes too (made my day). We either got insulted for that or complimented, but always using the same comparison. I can die happy knowing that Ian Broudie out of the Lightning Seeds dismissed one of my singles as being "lightweight" (his comparison was Eric Idle). Like being beaten to death with a flower, that.

I sing, write the tunes and play the acoustic guitar. I'd say frontman, but that's such a dumb word, bearing in mind that everyone else in the band shows up in photographs, and I don't (like Kristin Hersh). Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Mon Oct 8 13:43:49 BST 2001:

>The geezer from the NME thought it sounded like Neil Innes too (made my day). We either got insulted for that or complimented, but always using the same comparison.

not a compliment or an insult just a statement. top tune though (that was an insult)

>I sing, write the tunes and play the acoustic guitar. I'd say frontman, but that's such a dumb word, bearing in mind that everyone else in the band shows up in photographs, and I don't (like Kristin Hersh).

did you have anything to do with having the rice in the cd case then? very rattley. is your album much cop or is it just a few good singles and a load of shite? ive been meaning to look out for it but havent, as yet Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Mon Oct 8 14:56:57 BST 2001:

The rice was mine and our manager's idea. We ruined a mixing desk at EMI by insisting on filling all those CDs when we were in their studios on lunchbreak. (Cathy Dennis was next door, probably writing the HearSay album. Bless her.)

The first album went down really well, especially with the broadsheets, and doesn't have any singles on it at all (not even Leader - we're so indie, us), so it's either hardcore uncommercial brilliance or all filler - you decide.

But the new one, coming out in January, is something I'm really proud of. The first one was recorded in four days in a stinky studio for peanuts, the second one made lovingly by hand over six months. There's plenty of good stuff on album one, but number two wees on it from a great height, smiling all the time. Somewhere between Harry Nilsson and Grandaddy was the description I heard a couple of weeks back, and I'm happy with that.

Check out www.candidatesite.co.uk for reviews of the first record, if you like. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Mon Oct 8 15:16:08 BST 2001:

>Check out www.candidatesite.co.uk for reviews of the first record, if you like.

so are you the suave debonair bloke in the video for leader, or are you the one singing? boom boom Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Oct 8 18:31:43 BST 2001:

I should point out that the new Candidate album contains the song "Hawaiian Police" which will #1 for 17 weeks next year. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Wed Oct 10 17:28:06 BST 2001:

If the lead 'Angst' letter in the issue out today is from a geniune reader, I will buy a hat and then eat it. Its sheer awfulness is staggering, even by their recent standards. I don't have the copy to hand to quote from, perhaps someone could oblige...? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Wed Oct 10 17:45:09 BST 2001:

Do they put Angst online? Can we see? I'm not picking up that dirty rag if I can possibly help it, but I'll tolerate their cookies. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Oct 10 18:08:33 BST 2001:

>Do they put Angst online? Can we see? I'm not picking up that dirty rag if I can possibly help it, but I'll tolerate their cookies.

There's a web version here, but I doubt if it includes the printed letters: http://www.nme.com/MessageBoard/BBIndex/1,2402,37_109-0,00.html

Also, the current headlines on the front of NME.com include:

---------------------------------------

Jennifer Lopez love letter may be linked to anthrax death

D12 play Detroit youngster's bar mitzvah

Nicole Appleton has pint poured over her

---------------------------------------

You couldn't make it up. And, tragically, I don't think they have either. Subject: Kerrang is better than NME
Posted By paul twist on Wed Oct 10 18:24:59 BST 2001:

Slightly off-topic, I know, but anyone starting their own NME thread seems to get sent to the naughty corner, so I'll write it here.

Anyway, Kerrang is better than NME. Not in its music choice - I realise they aim at different audiences, but there ARE bands getting covered in NME that I would have assumed would be more suitable in the NME. Jimmy Eat World, Hot Water Music and New End Original are all bands who aren't really "metal" (JEW and NEO could quite easily fall under the umbrella of "indie"), yet these bands are all but ignored by NME, while toss like Kylie and Posh Spice get far too much column space.

And, at the moment, Kerrang really seems to care about music, at least more than NME does. Kerrang are giving prominence to bands that are on stupidly tiny labels, something the NME seems loathe to do. Bands like Small Brown Bike, Kids Near Water and the aforementioned New End Original have been pushed hard by Kerrang, even though none of them are on labels that can afford to advertise. I'm not saying that Kerrang is some fanzine-like example of choosing music over money - I've heard stories about bands paying to be in the news section, and apparently a Manics album review was once edited to be more favourable - but NME have done this also. Remember Be Here Now?

Kerrang also eschew pointless celebrity gossip and fabricated non-stories, and their forthcoming tours section is more comprehensive than NME's, printing details of tiny bands playing toilets.

Kerrang is possibly aimed at a slightly younger age group - and the music they cover isn't to everyone's taste - but at least they do seem to CARE about the music. Fugazi agreed to be interviewed by them, whereas they'd probably just tell NME to fuck off.

Even Everrett True's new magazine does sound better than NME, even if it isn't perfect. Any band willing to cover The (International) Noise Conspiracy can't be all bad.

And why don't NME print a list of what records are released in that week anymore? I used to find that very useful indeed.

Oh, and please do check out New End Original, especially if you know who Texas Is The Reason and Far were. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 10 18:35:11 BST 2001:

I know who Texas and The Far Corporation are/were. Is it the same? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Oct 10 18:43:44 BST 2001:

I was an avid reader of Kerrang! for several years, and probably still would be if it wasn't written for a target audience of 15 year olds. It's a cliche to say that heavy metal bands and heavy metal journalists are hellraisers who get pissed all the time, but this does indeed seem to be central to their ethos, and they really do love the music. More power to them, I say. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By paul twist on Wed Oct 10 19:05:46 BST 2001:

>I was an avid reader of Kerrang! for several years, and probably still would be if it wasn't written for a target audience of 15 year olds. It's a cliche to say that heavy metal bands and heavy metal journalists are hellraisers who get pissed all the time, but this does indeed seem to be central to their ethos, and they really do love the music. More power to them, I say.

Kerrang's writing style is nowhere near as embarrassing as it used to be, though. I used to be embarrassed to buy it when I was 15, now at 23 it's less embarrassing somehow. They dropped randomly inserting Ks into words a long time ago, and they only occasionally descend into embarrassing 'rockspeak'. These days they have writers who know their stuff about punk/hardcore/post-hardcore/emo too, unlike a couple of years ago when every time they wrote about such bands they made hideous mistakes. The NME pretend they know of such things, but it's clear that names are droppped to be 'cool'. Some Kerrang writers do this, some I know for a fact genuinely love such music. Rae Alexandra used to write for punk zines for free, and it's nice to see her pushing bands she genuinely loves to 14-15 year olds who otherwise would never get to hear them.

Also (and in an attempt to link this topic to the "Comedy" which is in the name of the forum), a couple of weeks ago they ran a fairly comprehensive article on Bill Hicks. Would NME do that anymore? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Wed Oct 10 20:24:23 BST 2001:

>If the lead 'Angst' letter in the issue out today is from a geniune reader, I will buy a hat and then eat it. Its sheer awfulness is staggering, even by their recent standards. I don't have the copy to hand to quote from, perhaps someone could oblige...?

Ah, go on.

"I just wanted to write to tell you how you've (sic) keeping me going at the moment, NME. I was 19 years old on September 10. I went down to our local in Brighton with my boyfriend, got merry, went home for a smoke and a dance to some tunes and went to bed pissed, high and very happy. It was the best birthday I've had. I can't remember a more traumatic day, however, in my life than the next day (and no, not just the hangover!). I lay in bed watching the coverage of the atrocity in New York all day and night crying and didn't sleep a wink. I felt desperately for all those poor people murdered, but selfishly I also knew that my life had changed forever, that I would never have another night like my 19th. That's what I thought, anyway. Gradually life isstarting to fall back into place. And for that I have to thank my NME subscription which drops through my letterbox every Weds (Sometimes Thurs! Not so good!). You lured me back into my world, towards my stereo and discman. That Oasis interview was the first time I've really laughed since the 11th. It just throws its hands up in the air and says, "we're all fucked, okay, but let's fucking have it". And that's the first constructive thing I've heard about this whole stupid mess. It's my new motto: We're fucked, but let's have it! I watch the news once a day now and for the rest of the time I'm playing music loud and having it as much as possible. Alice Deighton, Brighton."

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Wed Oct 10 20:41:10 BST 2001:

Ah, thank you Mr Jones!

Am I the only person to think this reads as being suspiciously, well... made up? Even down to the covering-their-tracks "late with the subscription, tut tut!" aside. And, if it is made up, and not the work of a genuine 19 year old, incredibly crass? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Oct 10 20:47:55 BST 2001:

Do not worry, you're not the only one - as soon as i saw it I thought, this is balls surely, quickly followed by my second thought, if it isn't rubbish... oh dear. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Wed Oct 10 21:03:34 BST 2001:

It's in how you pronounce it.

Alice D-IY-ton from Br-IY-ton.

OWAG!

Is there a letter from Clinton Winton from Frinton there too? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Wed Oct 10 21:07:32 BST 2001:

The one thing I found objectionable was the concept that 19 year olds have 'locals' nowadays. I never had a 'local' when I was 19. You'll be telling me they don't drink Smirnoff Ice next.

"You see, the thing about fucking beer, right, is that I fucking hate it... because it tastes of sick. so I fucking drink Smirnoff Ice. It's so sweet, you can drink loads of it." Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Wed Oct 10 23:22:15 BST 2001:

That letter really did sound like it was from a thirty-four year old man disguised as a nineteen year old girl.

A grisly image at the best of times. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Mr Shankly' on Thu Oct 11 02:57:34 BST 2001:

Damn. My browser just crashed and swallowed a message I was about to post. Here's the digest:

o Kerrang is better than NME cos they actually review the records. NME on the other hand prefer to air their wanky little theories about the bands in the reviews section.

o NME have been doing that ever since I started reading in 1994, but it's getting worse (or my tolerance for it is getting lower)

o Consequently, NME haven't given a big-name release a proper review in the 7 years I've read it. They always just write some style-mag type balls about the band instead. (obviously I've not exhaustively checked this, but it's the impression I got) Are they embarassed to have to write about music?

o If I read another review of a pop band that says something along the lines of "The thing about [name of band] is they're great and only Indie losers don't agree!!" I'll fucking scream. Fact is, Indie losers are their readers. Or we were until we all stopped buying it. I've been reading it exclusively on the web for the last year or so. Fuck 'em. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Oct 11 10:00:25 BST 2001:

This is precisely why the NME lost its audience.

I said earlier on this thread that the NME should be satisfied serving the audience of a sub-genre of music, since "Indie" is a sector in need of publicising & supporting just like Jazz, Folk, Metal or Dance (all of which have their own specialist press, clubs, networks etc).

However, since the Britpop / grunge days when their music was briefly in the mainstream, they're convinced they're just a "music paper" (ha! What's that supposed to mean? Choose your fucking market). Embarrassed by the market profile of their own readers, they're so full of self loathing, that they spend most of their time insulting their loyal customer base. "Bloody students" "Sad Manics fans" and so on.

And that's why they're such incorrigible cunts. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Thu Oct 11 10:18:57 BST 2001:

but they are giving away free posters so all your talk of them being in trouble must be wrong Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jack Welsby' on Thu Oct 11 10:34:08 BST 2001:

>There's a web version here, but I doubt if it includes the printed letters:

No, the Angst letters don't get put online.

>Also, the current headlines on the front of NME.com include:

>Jennifer Lopez love letter may be linked to anthrax death
>D12 play Detroit youngster's bar mitzvah
>Nicole Appleton has pint poured over her

I wrote those headlines. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Thu Oct 11 10:58:09 BST 2001:

>but they are giving away free posters so all your talk of them being in trouble must be wrong

This is the second week running that the NME has come in a sealed wrapper - is this so people can't leaf through it in the shop and see how bad it is? Or am I being paranoid?

I have to hold my hand up and admit that I actually bought last week's issue for the free CD (which turned out to be about as "exclusive" as tap water).

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Thu Oct 11 18:24:15 BST 2001:

For exclusive, most of the time they actually just meant live. I think there's about one song that i listened to twice on the cd.
Like Mr Shankly, i've been reading it on and off since 1994, and it seems to have got worse. But, if it was bad then, what does that say about the state of it now.
NME.com is just much more useful really. And it's free. Better for everyone. Even the writers on the paper must agree, because there's always the 'best website' thing on the front. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Thu Oct 11 20:19:17 BST 2001:

In fairness the free cd contained the wonderful 'Shadows Fall' by the Coral, which contains more invention than most bands manage in their careers, and which has proved impossible to actually buy. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Thu Oct 11 23:23:44 BST 2001:

>In fairness the free cd contained the wonderful 'Shadows Fall' by the Coral, which contains more invention than most bands manage in their careers, and which has proved impossible to actually buy.

I liked that one too. They're like a more experimental Shack.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Fri Oct 12 00:22:58 BST 2001:

I'm sort of plugging again and I know that's bad, alright? But I interviewed Mark E Smith and the crapness of the NME was one of the things we discussed. Right. http://www.studybees.com

(Stewart Lee is the next person I'm interviewing BTW)

Can we get to 1000 posts on this thread before my birthday? You've got til the 21st, loyal NME thread types...come on, you like a challenge. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Fri Oct 12 10:24:35 BST 2001:

>That letter really did sound like it was from a thirty-four year old man disguised as a nineteen year old girl.

"Blue Jam" lives. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Mr Shankly' on Fri Oct 12 19:39:17 BST 2001:

Headline from NME.com:
"NME sponsors So Solid Crew UK tour
And we can reveal it's a double-header with Oxide And Neutrino..."

I shit you not. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Oct 12 20:33:54 BST 2001:

Hooray. That's exactly what they're there for. The NME's experience at catering to a garage / dance crowd will stand them in fantastic stead.



JUST


COVER


THE


MUSIC


YOU


KNOW


AND


STOP


HATING


YOURSELVES

How many more times? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Mr Shankly' on Sat Oct 13 03:48:35 BST 2001:

And the funny thing is, as far as I can gather, So Solid Crew and Oxide & Neutrino are seen as talentless chancers on the garage scene too. Ho hum. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bobby' on Sat Oct 13 09:34:43 BST 2001:

Actually i don't mind nme covering Hip Hop, Garage, whatever. They pretty much always have done, and there'd be nothing worse than a scmindie only only fanzine effort - see the Barfly free magazine for a glimpse of a world where only indie exists.

What I would like however is for them to manage it with some knowledge, intelligence and credibility on their part.

For example the bizzare obsession with Oxide and Neutrino, endless flogging of fucking Ringtones, Steve Sutherlands humiliating 10/10 extollation of any commercial rap record - as if we need to be told about Hip Hop by some 47 year old in a denim shirt, absurd levels of build up for 'andrew wk' who is obviously just some kid rock type act that no one here is gonna care about, the nonsense dismisal of 'indie' whilst also giving about 100 positive reviews a week to 'indie' records/artists, the pointless inclusion of pop acts like Girls at Play or AllStars, the inevitablity of the first new page being devoted to Nsync or Eminem - are we in America?

Also the response to september 11 has verged on offensive. Ooh Ben Knowles thinks it's 'scary' that people are questioning Bobby Gillespie - no people just question him shooting his mouth off about something very complex which he palpably knows NOTHING about. April Long is worried about the affect on the knew Trail of Dead record. Gavin Mcinnes reveals he doesn't care if there's a backlash against muslims. Nice. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Sat Oct 13 09:47:23 BST 2001:

actually i don't know if it is gavin mcinnes, but it's you know that crazy new york guy who fails to tuen up to see the beta band cos he's sooo crazy. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Sat Oct 13 10:19:12 BST 2001:

The NME ought to acknowledge the existence of other "alternative" musics beyond traditional indie, yes. But the important word is "alternative". It's overused and a stupid term, but it used to be the function of the NME to look beyond the mainstream. It was a nice remit.

Neither commercial pop garage like Oxide & Neutrino, nor commercial rap need the extra coverage - and to give any column space at all to All Stars and their like is a total waste of time. None of this is "alternative" in the slightest, and its coverage is merely evidence of how embarrassed NME's editorial staff are that they're still supposed to be into all that stupid indie music. They'd rather do a story on some Basildon nightclub chancers than have to interview another one of those smelly guitar bands. Euurgh. What are we, students?

When NME first gave space to dance / rap / hip hop, there was an argument that the anti-corporate, underground stance of the music made it a comfortable bedfellow for similarly minded indie artists. These days, there seems little point, since the "indie" sector (post Oasis, post Travis etc) that the NME cover has no such agenda, and neither does the dance crowd to whom they choose to pay lip service.

The question the NME seriously needs to ask itself is "What are we for?" If they can't answer that, why should anyone buy their magazine? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Sat Oct 13 14:01:57 BST 2001:

i stopped reading the nme around the time when they became obsessed with rage against the machine, so i'm not really in a position to judge their recent output.

that said, having read most of this thread, it sounds very much like i've been right to ignore it. back in the day, the point of the nme was to introduce me to music i wouldn't have come across through the "usual channels", whether that was pavement (everett true's one moment of true glory was his slanted and enchanted review, and yeah, i know that was MM, but i wanted to say it) or the cowboy junkies.

why has it changed? the britpop episode was a factor, but i suspect the rise of the internet has been as much to blame. i don't need a badly written weekly to point me at the people under the stairs, cos i can do my own research online. consequently, the "build 'em up, knock 'em down" problem is even worse than before, because the nmesters need to get in really early to create that buzz, and therefore get the credit. it seems they're not very good at it.

but i haven't read the damn thing for 7 years, so i clearly don't know what i'm talking about. as you were, people.... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'steve' on Sat Oct 13 15:59:14 BST 2001:

The depth of sadness at the slow suicide of NME reflects a generation that grew up on the weeklies. MM, Sounds and NME made many bloopers, but they gave us a sense of a cause. However in this world of branding all we are clinging to is "N M E". If there are enough of that NME has let go, a new mag will emerge to fill the gap in the market.
What will we lose if the printed issue goes -just a name. If it were an animal it would have been put down months ago. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Sat Oct 13 16:42:12 BST 2001:

I was surprised at how long IPC kept MM going. I wonder if they'll let NME drag on as well, or perhaps they learned their lesson. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Sat Oct 13 16:52:32 BST 2001:

>I was surprised at how long IPC kept MM going. I wonder if they'll let NME drag on as well, or perhaps they learned their lesson.

well, it's aol/time now, innit? the nme will be percieved as a very useful brand, and it's once-good name will probably be pimped across every aol/tw property under the sun. never mind the quality, feel the brand awareness...

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Sat Oct 13 18:02:41 BST 2001:

"the nme will be percieved as a very useful brand, and it's once-good name will probably be pimped across every aol/tw property under the sun. never mind the quality, feel the brand awareness... "

will be? have you heard nmeradio or seen the ringtones nonsense.... both of the highest quality and in no way embarrasing. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Sat Oct 13 19:21:15 BST 2001:

Quick, somebody purchase NMEmerchandise.com before they get any funny ideas about "expanding the brand image".

Actually, that does make me wonder - has the NME ever produced T-shirts or mugs or anything like that? It seems to be something magazine like to do - and then give them to the person who wrote the letter of the month or week.

Actually, perhaps the band that wins single of the week should be given NME T-shirts, and forced to wear them for the week, before handing them over to the next band. Could be a good way of increasing the image of the NME Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bobby' on Sat Oct 13 20:23:30 BST 2001:

kind of like a yellow jersey for cutting edge new music artists? like P Diddy.

also they did used to do t-shirts. I remember when I first used to buy it a bloke i delivered newspapers to had one. It was black and just said 'NME'. I thought he was really old to still be buying it and I thought that was quite impressive. He must have been about 30. He always used to ring the paper shop to complain that I was late though, so i stopped delivering to him. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Sun Oct 14 02:30:07 BST 2001:

>Neither commercial pop garage like Oxide & Neutrino, nor commercial rap need the extra coverage

Of course not, but then neither do Travis or Stereophonics. NME probably shouldn't cover them either, but if they went that far they'd probably lose their readership completely. Fact is, the Oxide and Neutrino album is superb, 'commercial pop garage' or not. And it's therefore a good thing that NME's bringing it to the attention of its readers. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Sun Oct 14 03:14:17 BST 2001:

Oxide and Neutrino might be great, for all I know.

But so is (insert some jazz artist who's done something smashing this year) and (insert folk artist who's been recently marvellous) or (name of avant garde composer producing cutting edge minimalist work) but they don't make the NME. You can read magazines from all these specialist genres recommending their work. Why does the NME suddenly make an exception for Oxide & Neutrino when they'd never plug the jazz equivalent of their (excellent, I hear) album?

The NME should decide on a remit, a genre or style or attitude it'd like to champion and just go and do it. And do it properly. Not hop about insulting and alienating the core audience it used to have. The sort of people who've spent nearly 850 posts whining that they used to buy it and would buy it again if it stopped bahaving like your embarrassing dad, desperate to be seen as hip but clueless as to how to go about it.

I still don't see what's wrong with the NME trying to talk to the audience that Everett True's identified are going without a decent magazine. The forum posters here. The fans of alternative, independent music that the NME used to serve, before it decided that unless EMI was putting hundreds of thousands into promoting something, it wasn't worth covering. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Olly Aphonix' on Sun Oct 14 12:22:29 BST 2001:

Nice thread, very impressed.
You lot really go on.
Later,
Olly Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Sun Oct 14 13:25:52 BST 2001:

"The NME should decide on a remit, a genre or style or attitude it'd like to champion and just go and do it."

Trouble is, when they did that it just meant loads of shitty coverage for shitty bands like Ned's Atomic Dustbin, Jesus Jones, et fucking cetera.

Surely there must be a happy medium between the current mess, and what it was like in the worst depths of 1991 (when there wasn't much worth writing about: the dregs of Madchester, etc.) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Sun Oct 14 15:45:58 BST 2001:

> "never mind the quality, feel the brand awareness..."

Welcome to the 21st century. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Sun Oct 14 22:59:43 BST 2001:

When it comes out properly in November, go and see Ghost World. Fantastic film but one of its many themes is the inability to escape from "consumer choice" etc. Hideously true. Thora Birch plays me. Well, Enid actually, but she's very like me only with different hair and slightly bigger tits. Great soundtrack too - old blues 78s. It's very true to the spirit of the comic books.

BTW you lot have a week to get to 1000 posts on this topic. First one to get there (with a good post not random crap) wins a piece of birthday cake.

>> "never mind the quality, feel the brand awareness..."
>
>Welcome to the 21st century.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Sun Oct 14 23:07:15 BST 2001:

I'll try, Golly - I really will try. Because I love you. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Mon Oct 15 00:18:11 BST 2001:

>BTW you lot have a week to get to 1000 posts on this topic. First one to get there (with a good post not random crap) wins a piece of birthday cake.

But the great thing about this thread is that it trundles along and never goes away. It would have to move at a slightly sharper rate to get there, I suspect, so if anyone would like to say something obviously objectionable and offensive that would secure a quickfire 50 responses, that'd probably get the train to the station on time, so to speak.

PS well done on the lovely website GB. Just out of curiosity - how do you get all the great interviews? Is it a case of knowing the 'right people' or is it 'cos you're site's getting famous, or what? I only ask because I do something similar-ish myself (not on the internet) and the best interview I've ever secured is with the singer from Starsailor, who is lovely but not quite Mark E Smith. hmm... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Mon Oct 15 00:20:33 BST 2001:

the boo radleys were better than the beatles.

will this do? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Mon Oct 15 00:20:34 BST 2001:

the boo radleys were better than the beatles.

will this do? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Mon Oct 15 00:23:25 BST 2001:

is double posting cheating?

to justify this bit of filler, here's are some amusing cartoons.

http://www.calebproject.org/betray.gif
http://www.calebproject.org/isaac.gif
http://www.calebproject.org/rip.gif
http://www.calebproject.org/jonah.gif Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Mon Oct 15 00:26:14 BST 2001:

Sounds very reasonable to me.
Also: Luke Haines is better than any musician ever. Ahh.
I did enjoy looking at the old 'best comedy song' thread, and watching how i changed the conversation at one point to talk about the Auteurs. All part of my evil plan, of course. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Mon Oct 15 10:48:34 BST 2001:

>http://www.calebproject.org/betray.gif (etc)

Wh... what the f... Whuh?

I see the old Evangelical / heathen Muslim thing is as strong as ever. On one of those sites there's a long rant about how an archeological dig in Palestine in the 40s "proved" that Allah was once simply a tribal moon god, and was therefore inferior to the Judaeo-Christian God. The fact that Yahweh was just another tribal god from up the road had apparently passed the author by.

I like this site's "humorous" side, as well - "Don't Be Whale Vomit!" No wonder Pentecostals are always wearing that glassy-eyed perma-grin.

But my favourite has to be "Don't Betray Christ For Silver", with its implication that you should hold out for a better offer.

And, er, [notices flashing lights of On Topic Police in rear view mirror] one of them looked like an album cover. Or something. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Mon Oct 15 11:08:40 BST 2001:

>the boo radleys were better than the beatles.

Martin Carr borrowed my Beatles bootleg promo video and didn't give it back for years. I've never forgiven him for that.

Ringo would never have done something that bad, so therefore I prove that The Beatles were better than The Boo Radleys. I win.

(The only reason my Beatle vid got to the Boo man was that my cousin was in the Wake Up Boo! video, impersonating Gary Dwyer out the Teardrops, throwing shapes on a tower with a trumpet. Tiny, tiny, tiny claim to fame.)
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Morally Wrong' on Mon Oct 15 11:50:35 BST 2001:

I think the size of Martin Carr's Beatles obsession would lead him to try and punch hemidemisemiderm for suggesting such a thing anyway.

I've just remembered the last time the NME really got my hopes up, it was a couple of years ago and they started running a series of articles on where Britain's alternative scene was going next.

It lasted about three weeks, and I don't think it got any further than another poor excuse to tell us how messianic Terris were (the poor mites), before we ended up with Johnny Cigarettes lying in a gutter in Camden shouting about how great things were when he was young. Again.

I think I had a point to make, but it's gone.

I would wash Luke Haines' feet with my hair. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Mon Oct 15 12:07:12 BST 2001:

>I would wash Luke Haines' feet with my hair.

I'd rather he washed my hair with his feet. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Mon Oct 15 12:42:31 BST 2001:

> Fact is, the Oxide and Neutrino album is superb, 'commercial pop garage' or not.

i would dispute that being a 'fact'. i think they are shite, but then thats my 'opinion'. see?

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Mon Oct 15 12:57:40 BST 2001:

Now he sounds like Armando Ianucci's barber...

(858 posts, almost there... Come on, lads and lasses. Keep wittering...) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Mon Oct 15 14:14:07 BST 2001:

Can we hide random stuff up here? You know, so that all those cowards who never brave the heights of the NME thread can't find it? That should help us get up to 1000 posts, because I can't see discussion of the NME being enough somehow.

For starters, here's the latest rumours on the Sept 11th attacks (cut and paste, yadda yadda)

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/rumors.htm

I particularly love the one about James Woods, and the idea that the attacks were "a failure from a statistical standpoint". Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Oct 15 18:13:07 BST 2001:

Speaking of music, does anyone know where I can get that song from that film? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Mon Oct 15 18:32:27 BST 2001:

Why thank you. Me, know the right people? I live in Harrogate. No coke snorting with the fashionable sort here.

I wish the site was famous, I want more hits than I currently get. It massages the ego. I have more content than tvgohome, dammit, and I wish I made money out of the site because I hate my job. Aaaanyway....

To answer your question:

1) I pretend to a lot of people that the site is professional and has a proper office and stuff so that it's not mistaken for a webzine and therefore it gets slightly higher status than a fanzine. I bullshit a lot.

2) I don't know the right people, but I try to find the right people to ask. I emailed the Fall's manager, pointed out that I was a big fan and also wouldn't ask the obvious dull questions (I never do, I write interviews I want to read), plus the site got its name from a Fall lyric.

Mostly people ignore me. This may be to do with the fact that I email mainly as phones scare me a bit, especially as all London PR women have the same voice, also because I'm at college during the day.

3) I only have a mere FRACTION of the people I want to interview and I have no access to the rest. Aaaargh. Well, not at this point anyway. Maybe if the site GOT famous...

4) Does James Walsh really have a very camp voice? I've never *heard* him interviewed as I don't listen to music radio much and I don't watch much telly either.

>PS well done on the lovely website GB. Just out of curiosity - how do you get all the great interviews? Is it a case of knowing the 'right people' or is it 'cos you're site's getting famous, or what? I only ask because I do something similar-ish myself (not on the internet) and the best interview I've ever secured is with the singer from Starsailor, who is lovely but not quite Mark E Smith. hmm...

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Mon Oct 15 19:54:49 BST 2001:

just had a look at the paul daniels interview on studybees - who needs louis theroux? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Tue Oct 16 01:17:58 BST 2001:

>Mostly people ignore me. This may be to do with the fact that I email mainly as phones scare me a bit, especially as all London PR women have the same voice, also because I'm at college during the day.

I use the phone lots for that very reason. All London PR women I've spoken to have the kind of deep, husky voice which suggests they've been smoking non-stop for their entire adult lives, and, frankly, it turns me on. Aheeeem.

>4) Does James Walsh really have a very camp voice? I've never *heard* him interviewed as I don't listen to music radio much and I don't watch much telly either.

His voice is quite high, but I wouldn't necessarily say camp. He always comes across as a bit of a bore in interviews (including mine) which is a bit of a shame as he's actually quite witty and charismatic when the dictaphone's off. He was really nervous to start off with, for some reason (I'm his age and it was only a fanzine interview!), and he hid his packet of Skittles when he realised I was the interviewer because he didn't think they were rock'n'roll enough. But that's enough of my James Walsh anecdotes... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Tue Oct 16 17:49:58 BST 2001:

So, I'm interviewing Brian Harvey by phone tomorrow. I have 15 mins to ask decent questions on a mobile somewhere in college in a break between lessons... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Tue Oct 16 22:58:21 BST 2001:

Ask him how he feels about the total failure of E17's comeback.

Also ask him what Tony's doing these days - HIS comeback was suposed to happen several years ago, as a Bon Jovi-style "rocker".

How could no one in the "biz" back such an obvious winner? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Wed Oct 17 01:02:07 BST 2001:

Can I mention, in regard to the Strokes controversy, that although their album is way better than I expected, the utterly unsung new Spoon album that I just got given does itchy noo wave a lot better.

It sounds like the dB's in places, Split Enz in others. As a piece of retro-kitsch appropriation of the past, it has chosen far less obvious 70s-80s reference points than the Strokes men, and thus rules in a million cool ways.

Will we hear anything about it, though?

In at number 148 with a bullet, I expect.

In these dark times, where is Tony Mortimer when we need him most? Come back Tone! Come back! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Wed Oct 17 13:05:47 BST 2001:

"In these dark times, where is Tony Mortimer when we need him most? Come back Tone! Come back!"

well he was on Nevermind The Buzzcocks on Monday. will this do? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Wed Oct 17 17:40:33 BST 2001:

Is anyone else getting two "last post" announcements on the topic list for this thread?

Have we broken Rob's forum? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Oct 17 18:14:24 BST 2001:

I'm seeing the same. Very odd, considering there never was a post by "Old Man in Pub" on September the 7th.

Who is the Old Man in Pub? Is he responsible for the poor state of the NME? I think we should be told. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By TJ on Wed Oct 17 19:35:25 BST 2001:

I suspect it's probably Jack Woolgar (one for all you fans of 1960s TV action serials...) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Oct 17 20:15:31 BST 2001:

Fact: This week's NME has two front covers, one after the other, so it is twice as good. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Old Man In Pub' on Wed Oct 17 21:19:43 BST 2001:

>Fact: This week's NME has two front covers, one after the other, so it is twice as good.

What's on them?
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 17 21:25:22 BST 2001:

Andrew WK, the latest American rock chancer due for an uncompromising backlash next February. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Old Jon In Pub' on Wed Oct 17 22:58:06 BST 2001:

>Andrew WK, the latest American rock chancer due for an uncompromising backlash next February.

And who's on the other cover then?
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Thu Oct 18 01:00:26 BST 2001:

It's the same man - how exciting.
And surely Jon means "due for blanket radio coverage and number no.1's all over the place next february". Unless the NME would lie, but i don't think that's possible.

God i think my brain's finally stopped fighting, as has just started to accept the NME nonsense as part of its daily routine. Which is good, as this thread is getting to long to keep looking at - by the timne it's loaded now, i've read all the interesting parts of NME from front to back. Ad i've still got a minute spare. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Thu Oct 18 01:02:54 BST 2001:

> this thread is getting to long to keep looking at - by the timne it's loaded now, i've read all the interesting parts of NME from front to back. And i've still got a minute spare.

What's taking you so long? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Oct 18 01:49:24 BST 2001:

Deciding which Andrew WK cover to start from. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ben Sinister' on Thu Oct 18 11:37:55 BST 2001:

RE: A Rubbish lesson at school. More of a geography man, meself. Well, Geography
schoolboy......
no, sorry. Start again...... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ben Sinister' on Thu Oct 18 11:43:12 BST 2001:

(see how I'm trying to help out here, Golly?)

RE: The Boo Radleys being better than The Beatles.
Can you imagine what the drummer from The Boo Radleys' performance would have been like in "The Magic Christian" and "Candy"?
I rest my case. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Thu Oct 18 13:23:35 BST 2001:

"I live in Harrogate"

my flatmate has gone to a community care conference in Harrogate. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Thu Oct 18 18:48:07 BST 2001:

bloody popstars. our brian was late for a signing in walthamstow, got in a strop and cancelled the interview. he's now in norway so there is no rescheduling.

woooooo.

so who should i interview now? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Thu Oct 18 18:58:27 BST 2001:

>so who should i interview now?

XTC's Andy Partridge. No connection to Uk garage, The Strokes, the one out of Gorrilaz that looks like one of the Strokes, Starsailor, Andrew WK (and you though Kid Rock was a cunt!), student articles which give the lying impression we dress like the Strokes, White Stripes, Moldy Peaches or any of that lot - BUT - it would be actually, genuinely, really, really good.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Thu Oct 18 19:49:58 BST 2001:

>
>>so who should i interview now?
>
>XTC's Andy Partridge.

He does always come across as interesting...how do i get in touch with him?

I'm "doing" Dan Clowes via email, right, and I've to keep it under 10 questions but I thought Ghost World the comic book and the film were both so amazing this is going to be difficult... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Thu Oct 18 21:19:46 BST 2001:

> he's now in norway so there is no rescheduling.

I've got relatives all over Norway, including a cousin in Oslo who used to work for a Norwegian music magazine (in fact she was in the audience at that TV show where Pulp stormed off because no-one was listening to them)...

Whereabouts is that little scamp Harvey? Perhaps I can get my family to run him to ground and ask some pertinent questions for you by proxy. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Oct 19 09:29:06 BST 2001:

Hooray! Ask Dan Clowes great things, he's one of my favourites.

You can get in touch with Partridge pretty easily through his label, Cooking Vinyl, I'd imagine (they're the ones who distribute his IDEA records too). For about twelve seconds, my band were promised we could possibly do some work with Farters Parters, and Cooking Vinyl were the boys sorting it out. Ask them for a contact number and explain what you're up to. He does good, long, chatty fan interviews - there was a great Onion one recently.

www.cookingvinyl.com
info@cookingvinyl.com
PO Box 1845, London W3 0ZA

If I can get hold of a direct phone number, I'll post it up here. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Fri Oct 19 09:35:35 BST 2001:

i loved the boo radleys, and martin carrs solo stuff (brave captain) is great also. they werent better than the beatles but they were more logical successors than oasis or any other band touted as 'the next beatles' Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Oct 19 11:24:59 BST 2001:

Golly, here's Cooking Vinyl's number:

0208 600 9200

Go! Get Partridge! Fetchum! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Tom F' on Fri Oct 19 11:39:15 BST 2001:

>i loved the boo radleys, and martin carrs solo stuff (brave captain) is great also. they werent better than the beatles but they were more logical successors than oasis or any other band touted as 'the next beatles'

Quite right, if a band as innovative as the Beatles came along in the 90s, the last thing they would have done would be lazy Beatles rip-offs with one guitar sound & a poor level of musicianship*.

Although if anything Martin Carr was more hung up on the Beach Boys.

*I know this isn't all Oasis did/do, but it's a chunk. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Morally Wrong' on Fri Oct 19 11:54:06 BST 2001:

Boo Radleys - most underrated and ignored band of the 90's, anyone?

The thing I loved about them was the way they'd start off with a lovely pop melody, and then the My Bloody Valentine bit of Martin Carr's brain would sabotage it completely and take it somewhere else entirely. Something lovely almost always came out of the mess. I'd vote for "C'Mon Kids" as my favourite Boos thing, although it seems to be a bit too wiggy for most people.

The Brave Captain stuff is fantastic too, the first mini-album particularly. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Fri Oct 19 12:27:04 BST 2001:

>Boo Radleys - most underrated and ignored band of the 90's, anyone?

my point entirely! versus the most overrated band of the sixties.

don't get me wrong, the beatles were great, but (and this is crucial), totally undeserving of the fawning, blinkered, "deny all other bands of the period existed" reverence with which they are treated.

to back this up, consider the solo stuff. martin carr's 14 solo songs piss all over the collected works of john, paul, george and ringo, thomas the tank engine excluded. if you add in sice's eggman album, there's just no contest. over-inflated egos of nearly-great musicians leads to shite music. undernourished egos of shouldabeen great musicians leads to fabulous music. (c.f. mark eitzel, bob mould, and so on...)
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Oct 19 14:57:56 BST 2001:

Weird. I could have sworn that my dislike for The Boo Radleys stemmed from having them rammed down my throat as "geniuses" every five minutes by the music press.

I wouldn't have called them underrated.

Overamplified perhaps... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Fri Oct 19 15:10:10 BST 2001:

Am I alone in thinking 'Kingsize' is the best album? To split up after 'Comb Your Hair' (which could have been number 1 for years if it was released as a single), 'High as Monkeys', 'Blue Room In Archway' and the title track...why??? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Morally Wrong' on Fri Oct 19 15:53:23 BST 2001:

>Am I alone in thinking 'Kingsize' is the best album? To split up after 'Comb Your Hair' (which could have been number 1 for years if it was released as a single), 'High as Monkeys', 'Blue Room In Archway' and the title track...why???

I think it was because no bugger was listening to them. They thought they had a brand new fanbase to introduce to weird squonky music, made the aforementioned "C'Mon Kids", and drove them all away again. Shame. Kingsize would have been a great pop follow up to "Wake Up!".

Did you *really* have the Boos shoved down your throat, Unruly? I think they got increasingly ignored by the press after "Giant Steps". Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Fri Oct 19 17:06:03 BST 2001:

>I think it was because no bugger was listening to them. They thought they had a brand new fanbase to introduce to weird squonky music, made the aforementioned "C'Mon Kids", and drove them all away again. Shame. Kingsize would have been a great pop follow up to "Wake Up!".

I actually got in to the Boos through Wake Up! Well, I was 14/15, OK? I then went through the back catalogue and only liked Giant Steps. Loved C'mon Kids to pieces, saw them supporting MSP and was their ONLY fan, Sice told me to fuck off 'cause I wanted New Brighton Promenade not 27 minutes of Ride The fucking Tiger. Kingsize ruled. I gave Free Huey single of the week in the uni paper I wrote for at the time but everyone else was very sceptical.

Shall phone Cooking Vinyl on Monday, cheers for tips.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bobby' on Fri Oct 19 18:04:36 BST 2001:

Well they were rubbish live, they looked awful, Alan McGee didn't like them. They always got plaudits from the Music press - I think Giant Steps was (rightly) Select album of the year no? The Brave Captain mini album is pretty charming, but I could n't get into the lp.

I think it's good that they split with dignity and didn't just trundle on. Did someone just mention MSP? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Fri Oct 19 18:35:19 BST 2001:

I won't here a bad word against The Boo Radleys. It's pissed me off recently that most music magazine say how rubbish and overrated they are, especially focusing on Kingsize for some reason. But i suppose that's what journalist do, isn't it? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Fri Oct 19 20:31:54 BST 2001:

kingsize is lovely. the title track's probably the best slushy pop tune of the last fifteen years. i cried when they split up, and i'm a big man with no hair.

i really don't remember the radleys being excessively hyped by anybody. everything's alright forever got sneered at for being shoegazey, giant steps was grudgingly acknowledged as a classic in reviews, and then swiftly swept under the carpet, wake up was obviously their "sell-out" album, and by the time c'mon kids was released, i'd completely given up on the music press. if they'd have been hyping the radleys, i'd have bought every copy.

nice to see that i'm not the only person in the world who still rates them. next week on i love underrated nineties indie chancers - the new fast automatic daffodils! Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By paul twist on Sat Oct 20 00:49:57 BST 2001:

Giant Steps is my favourite Boo Radleys album. They found commercial success with Wake Up.

Modern Life Is Rubbish is my favourite Blur album. They found commercial success with Parklife.

Hm. Why does this happen? A band release a fantastic album, then the next one is less good?

And don't accuse me of the NME "oh, now they are poo because everyone likes them" type attitude, cos I remember hearing Mark and Lard play "Girls and Boys" on the Graveyard Shift before anyone else did and being very confused and upset. So there. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Sat Oct 20 01:13:42 BST 2001:

Wahey! Nine hundred posts!



Sorry, carry on.