>Deltron 3030- is that the rapper from the Gorillaz? If not, who is it?

Deltron 3030 is Dan 'Automator' Nakamura (superb hiphop producer), Kid Koala (exceptional hiphop dj) and Del Tha Funky Homosapien (Gorillaz rapper, I believe).

As pointed out below, Deltron 3030 are far superior to Gorillaz.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'JM' on Sat Sep 22 17:11:58 BST 2001:

Another to add to my Albums to Buy Checklist...

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Sun Sep 23 14:02:40 BST 2001:

>Another to add to my Albums to Buy Checklist...
>
You see, we could easily take the place of the NME review section in this megathread. Hefner's Dead Media out on monday (8).

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'bobby' on Sun Sep 23 18:32:46 BST 2001:

if we're reccomending things can i put a word in for the Ladytron lp. i know it had good reviews but i don't think they've been mentioned since, the nme having fallen in to the mtv trap of only acknowledging 4 artists in the same year. Top haircuts too of course...

Also a couple of years ago when the beta band were the new best ever thing they said to the nme, ' oh a year from now you'll be onto someone else and won't give a stuff about' - to which the nme - sylvia patterson i think it was (who i quite like actually, i think she realises how shit it is now) said 'no of course not, we're not that fickle! so what happens - well a couple of years later beta boys finally release lp realising early promise and what do they get - one interview and an o.k lp review.

twats. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Sun Sep 23 19:51:31 BST 2001:

>if we're reccomending things can i put a word in for the Ladytron lp. i know it had good reviews but i don't think they've been mentioned since, the nme having fallen in to the mtv trap of only acknowledging 4 artists in the same year

To be fair to the NME, there's not been very much Ladytron action since the LP came out to write about, only a Reading/Leeds appearance. I'm sure Stephen Dalton (does he still write for the NME?) will pen something breathless and slightly overdone about them just as soon as the Playgirl remixes get released.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'ollie' on Mon Sep 24 02:16:39 BST 2001:

if this is the 'recommend an overlooked band' part of the thread i'll go for Barcelona.

http://www.barcelonadc.com/

the new album is fly, phat, and in all likelyhood, dope. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'ollie' on Mon Sep 24 02:25:52 BST 2001:

*likelihood* i mean.

spelin sux. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Mon Sep 24 09:33:31 BST 2001:

if we are bigging up deltron 3030 and its many members may i recommend the following:

handsome boy modelling school - so, hows your girl?
kool keith - black elvis/lost in space
dr octagon - ecologist
kid koala - carpel tunnel syndrome
dan the automator - an even better tomorrow
mixmaster mike - anti-theft device
q-bert - wave twisters (dvd out soon)
cut chemist meets shortcut live at future primitive
dj shadow - brainfreeze Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Sep 24 12:59:13 BST 2001:

Fosca are really good. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Mon Sep 24 14:06:08 BST 2001:

Anyone know if Wise Buddha (Radio 1 indie production company) have a website. I can't seem to find the sod.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Justin on Mon Sep 24 14:27:28 BST 2001:

>Anyone know if Wise Buddha (Radio 1 indie production company) have a website. I can't seem to find the sod.
>
Here it is: www.wisebuddah.com


Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Mon Sep 24 15:24:35 BST 2001:

Grr! Spelling. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Mon Sep 24 18:54:52 BST 2001:

Also get 4 Horsemen by Ultramagnetic MC's, if we're talking Kool Keith. His rhymes on that are definitely as good as his Dr Octagon stuff. The Dr Dooom LP is patchy, though.

>kool keith - black elvis/lost in space
>dr octagon - ecologist
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Mon Sep 24 20:16:44 BST 2001:

this has got to be my wallet's least favourite thread. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Tue Sep 25 09:38:46 BST 2001:

>Also get 4 Horsemen by Ultramagnetic MC's, if we're talking Kool Keith. His rhymes on that are definitely as good as his Dr Octagon stuff. The Dr Dooom LP is patchy, though.

cant beat the classic critical beatdown for ultramagnetic mc-ing though
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'J. Temperance' on Wed Sep 26 13:34:24 BST 2001:

Jerry Thackeray (sp?), known better to some as Everett True, is apparently planning to launch a new music weekly in the UK to replace what's left of the weekly music press. Here's an extract from his journal, dated September 10, which he posted up on the I Love Music message board (which itself can be reached via http://www.freakytrigger.co.uk ) -

"We hold the first editorial meeting of Careless Talk Costs Lives in a plastic café at London Bridge station. No one sips strawberry tea. No one looks round and sees a portrait of Mavis Staples. Steve Gullick buys me too many containers of imitation coffee: by the time I reach my meeting with Carlton Books later to discuss my journal/deconstruction of celebrity/anti-fame ego booster I’m jabbering 10 to the second. I notice I have no sense of purpose right now. I mean, of course, structure. Appropriately enough, there’s little to discuss. We’re agreed that we want to create a magazine that will replace the decaying UK music press, through the use of one simple idea – to cover the music we love in an intelligent, soulful and stylish manner. For months now, I’ve been disturbed at the volume of free CDs that nestle on my Billy bookcase shelf – just over there to the left, just below the Smithsonian Collection Of Newspaper Comics and the Yoko Ono and Billie Holiday box sets – some of which are very fine indeed, and none of which British music ‘journalists’ (or perhaps that should read their ‘editors’) consider important or interesting enough for exposure. Also, I have no great urge to know what ring tones teenagers in Milton Keynes may or may not be using on their mobile phones. Also, I despise bad photography and the cult of irony more than I despise the Cosmic Rough Riders. Also, most music critics shouldn’t even be allowed out of bed in the morning, particularly those who appear on TV to reinforce the consensus. (This, they all do.) Steve Gullick would like to be able to print his photographs in a manner that befits them, and support great music. Stevie Chick, too – only substitute the word ‘words’ for ‘photographs’. Steve says that Mogwai will speak to us in Glasgow next week: this is a wonderful thing I am led to realise because they are a great band and have attitude. I like ‘attitude’, that most ambivalent of words."
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Sep 26 14:37:48 BST 2001:

Hallelujah. I wish them luck (especially the bit about mobile phone ring tones in Milton Bloody Keynes). Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Sep 26 18:39:10 BST 2001:

Everett True was responsible for the atrocity that was "73 in 83" (as The Legend), and consequently his opinions on music are of no value. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Wed Sep 26 19:57:12 BST 2001:

Everett True is of no value in general. Stevie Chick? Jesus Christ. These people are part of the problem, not the solution, but they're too blinkered to realise it. A Mogwai interview? Wow. There's something that's been a rarity in the music press. I'm absolutely desperate for one of those.

Fucking idiots. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 27 09:56:25 BST 2001:

True's comments are same as, same as. Nothing new and if he's pinning his hopes on a Mogwai feature full of "attitude" (so, like any NME article on them, then) he is sadly mistaken. They've just been dropped by their record label and are frankly on the skids.

Does this mean Stevie Chick has moved on? Hurrah.

It'll last as long as that Sun Zoom Spark spin-off weekly in 1995. Six issues at best. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Thu Sep 27 12:01:45 BST 2001:

Who was behind RAW (not the rock mag, the britpop one that explained everything for you as if you a half-wit)? And why?

And where's Andrew Collins gone? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'kip saunders' on Thu Sep 27 12:12:43 BST 2001:

>Who was behind RAW (not the rock mag, the britpop one that explained everything for you as if you a half-wit)? And why?

it was a sort of bi-weekly Select wasn't it? The first issue was given away free in one of those 'Cereal box full of free stuff' Select did once or twice. I think the second such arrangement was used to launch Neon magazine.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Sep 27 12:18:15 BST 2001:

Mogwai? Dropped? Really?

They were only on Chemikal Underground... surely they sell enough for *them*? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Thu Sep 27 12:25:43 BST 2001:

For the last album they signed to a new record company. Although i thought they kind of released the album themselves, and had their own label? Guess not, then Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Thu Sep 27 12:36:33 BST 2001:

They are/were on Southpaw, also home to Pernice Brothers and the Zephyrs. I'm sure CU would re-sign them. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 27 12:40:47 BST 2001:

No, the label was backed by Southern, I think. Can't remember off hand, but yes, Rock Action was a subsidiary revival of their old pre-Chemikal independent.

Mogwai royally pissed off Chemikal Underground when they decided to leave, following in the wake of Arab Strap to Go!Discs, also dropped after one album.

I was speaking to an old college friend last week, who is in Magoo (Chemikal act), and he reported that the drop had happened and there is no room at the inn.

No longer care, strangely. I adored Mogwai until it became readily apparent that they were never going to deliver the monumental album I always expected from them. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 27 12:41:57 BST 2001:

Southpaw. That was it. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Thu Sep 27 12:42:44 BST 2001:

>And where's Andrew Collins gone?

He's alive, but busy. An Eastenders episode tonight to prove it...
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Thu Sep 27 12:45:03 BST 2001:

Interesting Chemikal Underground fact: Did you know that when you phone them up, Alun Woodward out of the Delgados answers the phone? (Yes, I know they run the label, but I thought they might employ a minion to do such a tedious task)

"Hello, Chemikal Underground?"

"Hi, I was just wondering if the Delgados were doing any press for the Only Connect thing in London."

"Er...no."

"OK, thanks, bye" Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'James M' on Thu Sep 27 12:46:43 BST 2001:

Is their version of Avinu Mulkaynu getting released in this country?

I think most of Mogwai's finest moments are all neatly wrapped up in the "Ten Rapid" compilation. It was downhill all the way after that, more or less. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Sep 27 12:47:05 BST 2001:

Any chance of The Delgados themselves getting signed up by a big company? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Sep 27 13:59:15 BST 2001:

Delgados on a major? Why would they want to?

This is a row I have all the time with people. Post Britpop, there seems to be an assumption that any half decent band will naturally get snapped up by a big label and everyone in the world will hear them and there'll be stand up cutouts in Woolworths of the bass player.

This is no longer the case. We're back at the mid 80s stage of the big labels being utterly unable to deal with or spot left field talent, even if they wanted to. Which they don't. Because there's no money in selling 50,000 copies of an independently minded LP (50,000 is a previously respectable figure which is currently seen as a failure by even forward looking labels like Go! Beat). The money and the focus is in manufacturing bands to do global pop deals, or stripping solo artists / songwriters out of bands to do hackwork for your latest teen prodigy.

True. And it's based on simple economics. Rough Trade, for instance, in the old days might have been chuffed to be doing 50-100,000 of a record, because they ran their own operation. But when you're answerable to Sony or whoever, that figure is laughable, and will get serious questions asked. Some bands - by definition the more interesting ones - will only ever have a fanatical cult following and just can't sell more than that, and so are of no interest to major labels. I'd include The Delgados. Remember, The Flaming Lips' The Soft Bulletin was a huge disappointment to their label in sales terms, and The Delgados last album was basically a pale imitation of that. (Peloton rocks, though).

It's all a question of looking at it from the accountant's point of view, not the fan's.



BTW, Bent, I know some ex members of Magoo too. Isn't the world a tiny place? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Sep 27 14:01:43 BST 2001:

> I'd include The Delgados

Sorry. Fast typing.

That should have read "I'd include The Delgados in that category..." Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'stu campbell' on Thu Sep 27 14:13:57 BST 2001:

after reading mark beaumont's would-be apocalyptic attempt to examine where music will go after the w.t.c. disaster, I am never going to buy the nme again. that talentless fucker is symptomatic of what currently passes for a writing 'style' in the nme nowadays (lots of CAPITALISED SENTENCES FOR EXTRA EMPHASIS, lots of 'this makes (insert band name) sound like (insert other band name, preferably diametrically opposed to the first)' and 'this is the most bland / uninspiring / derivative / record since...' - well, I'm sure you can fill in the rest. unfortunately, i think my boycott will be pretty short-lived, as i honestly can't see the nme lasting much longer. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Sep 27 14:29:37 BST 2001:

Strewth.

Does he do ".... on acid" too?

There should be a list of journalistic offences for which you can be hung. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Bongofury' on Thu Sep 27 14:46:27 BST 2001:

>Is their version of Avinu Mulkaynu getting released in this country?
>
>I think most of Mogwai's finest moments are all neatly wrapped up in the "Ten Rapid" compilation. It was downhill all the way after that, more or less.


From http:\\mogwai.co.uk

Mogwai To Release 'My Father My King' One Track EP

Prior to the Reading Festival weekend at the end of August, Mogwai went into the studio with Steve Albini to record a version of 'My Father My King' - a song first brought to the attention of the band by Arthur Baker and what has now become a staple of the live set.

The results of this endeavour will be released on 22nd October 2001 on CD single and one-sided 12 inch vinyl through Rock Action Records with releases around the world to follow.

HMMMM.... Steve Albini



Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Thu Sep 27 16:31:14 BST 2001:

The Flaming Lips' The Soft Bulletin was a huge disappointment to their label in sales terms.

yeah, but Warners have been incredibly loyal to the Flaming Lips in the last 9 years - think of Zaireeka! and The Soft Bulletin must have been their biggest seller to date.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Sep 28 10:04:55 BST 2001:

But there was talk of dropping them after Soft Bulletin.

To fans, it seems that SB was a huge success. To Warners, it's a big investment for very little return. It's a question of which side of the corporate music divide you're standing.

BTW, Jon, you asked why The Delgados haven't been snapped up by a major. I asked a music biz bod last night, who told me that they were. Two of their early singles were put out by Warners, who then dropped them and treated them so badly that the wee Scots went back to the indie sector gladly. They've been burned once... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Fri Sep 28 10:58:35 BST 2001:

>But there was talk of dropping them after Soft Bulletin.
>
>To fans, it seems that SB was a huge success. To Warners, it's a big investment for very little return. It's a question of which side of the corporate music divide you're standing.

It just seems odd that they would be dropped now considering that their other warners albums (3 proper ones) must've sold only a fraction of The Soft Bulletin - but that's the way majors are, I guess. They obviously just haven't looked into the reaction they've been getting more recently. The tossers. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Fri Sep 28 12:17:05 BST 2001:

not sure of the chronology, (or, for that matter, what i'm talking about), but i suspect warners expected the "deserter's songs" style kerfuffle over sb to translate into similar sales figures. shame they forgot to market the fucker.

amazon claims that something called "box set" is out in the states on oct 6th, byt i can't find any mention of it elsewhere. anyone know what it is? (it's only 14 quid, which is pretty cheap for a box set) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Fri Sep 28 12:26:29 BST 2001:

(it's a flaming lips record, btw) Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Fri Sep 28 12:34:55 BST 2001:

>not sure of the chronology, (or, for that matter, what i'm talking about), but i suspect warners expected the "deserter's songs" style kerfuffle over sb to translate into similar sales figures. shame they forgot to market the fucker.
"Clouds Taste Metallic" is the best album anyway. and "Talking About The Smilin' Deathporn Blues (Everyone Wants To Live Forever)" could be the best song title this side of the Frogs or Half Man Half Biscuit.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 28 13:06:29 BST 2001:

Sticking with the Delgados for a moment, I have to say I thought "Peloton" was poorly produced when I first heard it, and haven't changed my mind much. There are 5 excellent songs on it and it just doesn't do them full justice. "Great Eastern" overcomes that, though the songs aren't as good. I haven't heard the 1st one.

Don't worry, Unruly - as soon as Dave Lee Travis plays "Hawaiian Police", you can start rehearsing for that SMTV interview wherein the kids ask "What does the title mean? What's it like to be at #1 for 8 weeks? How easy is it to learn all your dance routines?" and so on.

Indie bands that should be signed by majors:

Baxendale
Belle & Sebastian
Half Man Half Biscuit
Candidate Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'kip saunders' on Fri Sep 28 13:10:08 BST 2001:

>>
>Indie bands that should be signed by majors:
>
>Baxendale
>Belle & Sebastian
>Half Man Half Biscuit
>Candidate


My band supported Baxendale just after 'Music For Girls' came out. The girl keyboard player was very snotty.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Sep 28 13:13:10 BST 2001:

Biscuits were to sign to V2 in 1996, but it fell through, thus 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Road' turned up on Probe Plus anyway. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 28 13:29:26 BST 2001:

Would there really be that much profit differnece between running a large roster of medium-selling bands, and putting everything into a few big-selling pop acts? Most indie-type bands have a reliable fanbase, reasonable lifespan, and get plenty of publicity through NME etc.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Fri Sep 28 13:31:28 BST 2001:

Another thing: I got the "What's Up Matador" compilation a while back. In the booklet it says that they received 2 major-company cash injections. What was all that about? Did they sell off some bands?

It usual for indie labels to get percentages when a major buys out a band's contract - Sub Pop got a royalty for finding Nirvana for Geffen. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Paul Kelly on Fri Sep 28 14:07:29 BST 2001:

>Biscuits were to sign to V2 in 1996, but it fell through, thus 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Road' turned up on Probe Plus anyway.

Much as I love HMHB, there is no way on Earth that 'Voyage To The Bottom Of The Road' could come out on ANY major label - however, "McIntyre, Treadmore & Davitt"-era HMHB would actually have a small chance of convincing some major label comapanies. Even by HMHB standards, "Voyage", though great, does sound bloody awful production-wise, and not it in a good 'home-recording' sound either. The engineer should be castrated (good songs though). However, it warms my heart that as recently as 1996, a major would be interested in the biscuits, especially considering the music they were making at the time. 'Deep House Victims' Minibus Appeal' on Letterman, anyone? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Bent Halo on Fri Sep 28 14:59:12 BST 2001:

The V2 negotiations happened before recording took place. All the Voyage songs had only appeared live or on Peel/Radcliffe sessions up until that point. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Sat Sep 29 01:48:22 BST 2001:

>Another thing: I got the "What's Up Matador" compilation a while back. In the booklet it says that they received 2 major-company cash injections. What was all that about? Did they sell off some bands?
>
>It usual for indie labels to get percentages when a major buys out a band's contract - Sub Pop got a royalty for finding Nirvana for Geffen.


The sources of funding can be arcane and bizarre, not necessarily just "selling" bands to majors. Investment deals, stakes in the company, closed distribution deals... lots of stuff that music biz lawyers understand.

But rest assured that, with about a dozen tiny, unheard of exceptions, there is not a single independent record label in the country which isn't in hock to its eyeballs to a major.

Apart from Rocket Girl, Snowstorm, Fierce Panda (?) er... there aren't any others left.

The last two true, big-hitter indies were Mute and 4AD, and they went down years ago. Both are now major label subsidiaries. 4AD went bust, sacked everyone, and reappeared about 2 days later as part of Beggar's (Warner Bros).

The fans don't notice... They carry on buying their "indie" records and wonder why their favourite bands suddenly have expensive videos... It's like Invasion Of The Body Snatchers.


Ooh, look! The Matador question answered at:
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/whatsamatador.html

A (slightly out of date) map:
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/whoownswho.html

Cool.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Sat Sep 29 13:22:36 BST 2001:

How did 4AD manage to go bust, given that they had The Pixies?

That "Greg Lane" article sounded very Albini-ish... Albini used to be mates with Gerard Cosloy (GC gets thanks on one of the Big Black albums). But then again Albini did albums for Bush and Page&Plant - where's the difference? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Sun Sep 30 11:48:55 BST 2001:

The legendary Steve Albini article which may have reminded you of that Greg Lane piece is here

http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html

It's from the same issue of Maximum Rock and Roll, dating from the post grunge boom, and should be compulsory reading for anyone in a band and their mums ("Why aren't you on Top of The Pops, darling...?" "Because that would involve having my entrails dragged out and sold to the highest bidder, mum...")

4AD could go under quite easily, even with that back catalogue. The Pixies sold dick anywhere in the world except the UK and France. That's one of the reasons Kurt Cobain was tortured. He felt he'd ripped them off and got the acclaim and sales that Black Francis' mob had deserved, and Husker Du before them.

Anyway, great back catalogue can't help you if you're pouring major-label-competitive levels of money into your current roster and getting tiny returns. I think Sigur Ros were the only band brining in any kind of cachet and cash. 4AD were seen by many in the business as a label with a time limit - they'd represented mid 80s - early 90s indie so brilliantly, that they were seen as has beens by the late 90s, so associated with a certain genre of dated music, that they had ossified.

Back to The Pixies. Never mistake a band being an influential force in fan circles with major labels giving a shit about them. I think 4AD was pretty in hock to Beggar's before they went bust, then Warners moved in as they finally collapsed and picked up the pieces (cf Sony and the fallout from Creation).

I checked the figures and The Smiths used to do around 100,000 copies of their albums, even when no UK fan would ever believe they weren't the biggest band on earth. Talk to Hazeley about what Go! Beat are expecting of his new record, and see how the stakes have changed. It's not healthy. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Mon Oct 1 07:45:20 BST 2001:

The Smiths established the trend for indie bands to get high chart placings in the 1st week of release (because all the fans bought it immediately) followed by a rapid descent. "Meat Is Murder" went straight to #1 in the album charts, but wasn't in the top 100 after about 3 months.

Then again, those albums are still selling reliably today, like the old REM ones. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Mon Oct 1 19:31:03 BST 2001:

And if they don't sell for a bit, in the case of the smiths, we'll just shove another best of album out, eh? And let's not bother telling the band, it'll just distract them from whatever they're doing. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Tue Oct 2 13:52:19 BST 2001:

>But rest assured that, with about a dozen tiny, unheard of exceptions, there is not a single independent record label in the country which isn't in hock to its eyeballs to a major.

Two words: dance music.

XL and Warp are still independent, aren't they? What about Jive and Rephlex? These are labels that sell albums as well as 12", and I'm sure they are still truly independent. They're also pretty big (with the possible exception of Rephlex).
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Tue Oct 2 15:40:20 BST 2001:

Yeah. Dance music still manages to do it (though I think XL is major backed, isn't it?)

Funnily enough, this goes back to the original argument about the function of the NME.

I admit, saying there are no indie labels left at all was a bit sweeping. I mean, within genres, there are still healthy labels covering their costs and doing well targeting niches. (Topic Records, for instance, in the folk field, is still going strong, and currently holds the record as the world's oldest surviving indie label) But dance music disseminates information to its fans differently than old school "indie labels".

Dance music can (and often prefers to) exist autonymously - records selling on the back of popularity within the club scene, specialist radio play, or white label culture, without the need for brandable, identifiable bands and faces. Other specialist genres also have their way of disseminating information about releases, and thus helping independent record labels to reach their audience (Club scenes, specialist magazines, a sense of defiant undergroundness).

What's weird is that the NME used to provide this service for the alternative guitar music scene - disseminating information that enabled small labels to survive. Post major label buyout and Britpop/Grunge, there is no-one doing this job. Independently minded songwriters in the velvets/stooges/beatle/roxy/bowie/television/smiths/joydivision/nirvana-influenced genre are expected to exist on majors these days or nothing else. The vast number of potential fans of independently produced "alternative" music aren't necessarily used to chasing it up for themselves. Ironically, the success of alternative music of this sort in the 90s has made it one of the least independently minded musical forms around.

Outside the Rough Trade Shop clientele, the NME used to be one of the only ways to publicise this sector of the record market. It doesn't do it any more. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Tue Oct 2 16:22:07 BST 2001:

>Yeah. Dance music still manages to do it (though I think XL is major backed, isn't it?)

You may well be right. There's an interesting history to the label though - if you look at the roster now you can see the hardcore heritage filtered through the 90s, but still discernable. Or something.

>I admit, saying there are no indie labels left at all was a bit sweeping. I mean, within genres, there are still healthy labels covering their costs and doing well targeting niches.

And across genres, as Warp (for example) are no longer purely electronica (and the worse for it). Whereas in the 80s and early 90s you had guitar labels such as Creation and 4AD dabbling with dance, you now have a reversal, with labels that gained success through dance dabbling with guitar music.

>Dance music can (and often prefers to) exist autonymously - records selling on the back of popularity within the club scene, specialist radio play, or white label culture, without the need for brandable, identifiable bands and faces.

This, for me, is a strength that has been duly rewarded. Dance music shies away from egos and the old "rock and roll" myths that teenage boys and overgrown teenage boys like Alan McGee aspire to.

And some of the artists have become huge despite ignoring this - how many people who bought the massive selling first Leftfield album have any idea what they look like?

Dance artists largely live and die on the strength of the music - if you release a dud track that no-one can dance to, then it flops. 'Bands' can release terrible music that sells on the basis of misguided loyalty, collector-fervour or image. There are dance artists with the same problem, but there are considerably rarer.

>What's weird is that the NME used to provide this service for the alternative guitar music scene - disseminating information that enabled small labels to survive. Post major label buyout and Britpop/Grunge, there is no-one doing this job.

Do you think that lots of people starting guitar bands these days have their eyes on the prize though? Sounding 'indie' is no longer an indicator of credible goals, artistic leanings or even left-wing politics in the way it was in the 80s. It can be as sure a sign of desperate angling for commercial success as auditioning for a band like Steps. It just tends to have more self-delusion about 'art'.

>Ironically, the success of alternative music of this sort in the 90s has made it one of the least independently minded musical forms around.

Exactly. I don't shed any tears for a musical genre (nebulous as it is) that I have never cared for, but I do have some affection for the little labels that are out there doing what they do for the 'right' reasons (by my reckoning). Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Tue Oct 2 16:57:31 BST 2001:

I'm just biased. I'm up to my neck in this starving genre, keeping a band together, helping run an independent label, and the way it's treated in the UK sometimes makes me sick.

John Peel aside, there's this bizarre delusion that independent velvets-heritage music ("guitar" is probably a misnomer, but I might start using it) (how about "old NME style music"?) has a viable future, but how can it, when all its outlets have been co-opted by massive corporations who end up looking disappointed when Gay Dad, say, hit their target market head on, sell 100,000 copies and get dropped because they're not doing as well as Pulp at their peak?

The UK indie guitar music scene needs to recalibrate itself along the lines of its American cousin, using underground networks, maybe developing some kind of equivalent to US college radio, and realise it exists parallel to the majors, not as part of them.

NME would - had it stuck to its guns - been a major factor in this recalibration. As it is, we can wave it bye bye pretty fast, since it's not serving the audience it wishes it had (major-label buying post-Smash-Hits kids) or the one it ought to encourage (a truly independent music culture).

To beat the labels, genres need to strengthen themselves, like dance music did, not dilute their principles. Cheers, NME. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Tue Oct 2 17:01:52 BST 2001:

I'd like to apologise for sounding like the 18-year-old version of myself in that last posting.

I wondered where he'd gone. He was just hiding behind my cynical, weary facade. Ho hum. Doesn't matter. It's only music. Of course all my favourite teenage bands would be signed these days. Of course it's no worse than it ever was... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Tue Oct 2 17:35:56 BST 2001:

>I'm just biased. I'm up to my neck in this starving genre, keeping a band together, helping run an independent label, and the way it's treated in the UK sometimes makes me sick.

You're a reasonable man. But no genre (or band) should need to rely on a paper as dreadful as the NME, even back when it was only mildly dreadful.

That said, what right does 'indie' have to be treated well in the UK? Or any genre of music for that matter.

>John Peel aside, there's this bizarre delusion that independent velvets-heritage music ("guitar" is probably a misnomer, but I might start using it)

I'd like to start calling dance music 'Popcorn-heritage' but it's too wrong.

>(how about "old NME style music"?) has a viable future, but how can it, when all its outlets have been co-opted by massive corporations

Maybe this happened because the successful 'alternative' music has all been pop music in its most recognisable form - i.e. some blokes playing guitars and singing. Dance music has been partially co-opted, but will cause middle-aged businessmen problems for a while because it doesn't look like the music they used to listen to.

>who end up looking disappointed when Gay Dad, say, hit their target market head on, sell 100,000 copies and get dropped because they're not doing as well as Pulp at their peak?

These bands invite it on themselves though. They aim to be successful and 'be bigger than Oasis'. The arrogant posturing that serves as an alternative to decent music has been a problem for indie ever since the Stone Roses made it big. And probably before that for all I know.

I liked it when Gay Dad were labelled failures, in the same way I liked it when Fabulous and Kula Shaker disappeared. I like it when Victoria Beckham falls flat on her face. Naked ambition should be slapped down wherever possible. Eh, Charlie Brooker?

>since it's not serving the audience it wishes it had major-label buying post-Smash-Hits kids)

Because they never were that audience themselves. The appalling journalism and idiocy of most music journalism does not tend to stem from a wide-eyed love of pop, like what Neil Tennant has.

Also - remember that Smash Hits did much to populise 'indie' bands in the 80s.

>To beat the labels, genres need to strengthen themselves, like dance music did, not dilute their principles. Cheers, NME.

It's always difficult to claim that dance music did anything - it's a vast church with thousands of people involved all pulling in different directions. It would never had depended on one magazine to give it direction or help it stick to any principles. It grew as it had to, as a consequence of its nature as a genre, largely arising from its original function - making people dance.

www.popjustice.com used to say this far better than I ever could, but he never seems to get round to relaunching. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Tue Oct 2 20:36:49 BST 2001:

What about labels like Twisted Nerve and Source? I've no idea whether they're 'properly' independent or not (In fact, I think Source is licensed by Virgin) but they're still releasing wonderful, generally independent-spirited music. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Tue Oct 2 20:49:48 BST 2001:

>What about labels like Twisted Nerve and Source? I've no idea whether they're 'properly' independent or not (In fact, I think Source is licensed by Virgin) but they're still releasing wonderful, generally independent-spirited music.

Unruly Butler (who always seems anything but unruly) did mention that there were some tiny independent labels making guitar music out there. I took it that he was talking about the decline of 'heavy hitters' like Creation and Mute.

Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Tue Oct 2 20:52:55 BST 2001:

>Unruly Butler (who always seems anything but unruly) did mention that there were some tiny independent labels making guitar music out there. I took it that he was talking about the decline of 'heavy hitters' like Creation and Mute.
>

Depends what you mean by tiny, though. Those two are pretty well-known and release plenty of records, some of which even get in the charts. As for Alan McGee, he has his Poptones, which is surely fully independent (that's why he started it). Point taken.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Tue Oct 2 22:05:45 BST 2001:

I'm 90% certain Warp are involved with Sony. Ninja Tune are also linked with a major as well, I think. However, I would say that the majors do leave leftfield dance labels thye're involved with (the two I used as examples are probably the biggest two that can be said to be consistently been interesting, Mo'Wax haven't really recovered from the split with A&M) to their own devices for reasons that can be seen from the Albini link above: cost.

The cost for a label like Warp to release a record is very small compared to that for a guitar band. Tour - if any - will either be Djing or a couple of laptops. Promotion is largely word of mouth, good press and a fanbase loyal to the label name. Probably no studio costs - my home 'studio' cost less than £2000 spread over time, and most people have already all the equipment they need to produce quality records before they're signed. And of course most of these people are individuals or duos, no producer, engineer, often no manager. If I recorded good enough songs, I could get them released in a month, probably - the only costs due are artwork, pressing, promotion and so forth, none of which would be anywhere near the amounts a NME-hyped indie band would get spent on them.

But the market for labels like Warp and Ninja with large rosters and plenty of album releases is small anyway. The money in commercial dance is through compilations and clubs themselves - no independence and artistic integrity there. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Tue Oct 2 22:20:56 BST 2001:

"Warp (for example) are no longer purely electronica (and the worse for it)"

I would go the other way - I think they could have easily got into a rut had they not broadened their roster. Remember one Warp's first releases was that DJ Mink hiphop track - so it isn't unprecendented. Are Tortoise, Anti-Pop Consortium and Scott Herren so far removed from the rest of the label? I don't think so. And I think if Warp was left to the likes of Aphex (who doesn't seem to care much now) and Autechre (who seem to alienate everyone apart from me nowadays) then it would look a very insular, unhealthy label indeed. I think the Prefuse 73 album - second best LP of the year so far, IMHO - is a perfect example of Warp keeping it's electronic background whilst moving into new pastures. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Peter O' on Tue Oct 2 22:24:34 BST 2001:

>I'm just biased. I'm up to my neck in this starving genre, keeping a band together, helping run an independent label, and the way it's treated in the UK sometimes makes me sick.

England is yours and it owes you a living? Ho ho.

Don't apologise for sounding like your 18 year old self. It was quite refreshing to read. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Mogwai on Tue Oct 2 22:53:30 BST 2001:

>I'm 90% certain Warp are involved with Sony. Ninja Tune are also linked with a major as well, I think.

Warp's stuff is released by Sony in the States, but that doesn't *necessarily* mean that they have a stake in the actual label, like Mute's old licensing deal with Sire.

You absolutely sure about Ninja? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Gedge' on Tue Oct 2 23:16:31 BST 2001:

>You absolutely sure about Ninja?

I think maybe I was getting confused with Mo'Wax, thinking about it. My mind's on other things.

Although I've nothing concrete, I'm sure the Warp/Sony thing did include over here as well. I thought maybe it was distribution, but looking in The Wire, Vital do that for them.

Hmm. Must check these things up first in future... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Oct 3 00:45:16 BST 2001:

Sorry to go back to old stuff on this thread (mainly because what's said now is more interesting), but NME have a news story saying Chemical Underground are re-releasing some old Mogwai stuff. What, if anything, does this mean for the band?
Also, Elastica have split up. Anyone notice? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 3 11:28:06 BST 2001:

"Warp (for example) are no longer purely electronica (and the worse for it)."

Don't you like Broadcast? I love 'em. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 3 11:35:46 BST 2001:

Unruly: did you get those tapes I sent you? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Wed Oct 3 13:33:36 BST 2001:

this weeks nme must have one of the most tenuous news stories in recent times. pj harvey was on the jay leno show and one of the other guests was arnold schwarzenneger. the story was about how polly could be destined for a hollywood career because, and i paraphrase, 'he seemed impressed by her rock swagger and stylish pinstripe suit'. it then goes on to say there is no eveidence to suggest they spoke before or after the show but polly has acted before and said she wants to again. so obviously she will be in terminator 3 then

also most pointless comment in a live review (paraphrasing again): 'jason pierce came onstage wearing new gold trainers and an expensive jumper' and? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 3 14:25:13 BST 2001:

Yeah, but Spiritualized are themselves entirely pointless, so it was highly appropriate. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Wed Oct 3 14:26:03 BST 2001:

Does anyone else realise this thread has now been running since the end Of March? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Peter on Wed Oct 3 14:57:49 BST 2001:

Back in the good old days when we all knew Andrew Collins as just 'Andrew'. Also, it shows how long NME has been crap- give or take a couple of years. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Wed Oct 3 16:32:10 BST 2001:

Blimey. Since March? I'm scared. Keep it going past my birthday at least (I'm 21 on the 21st, shouldn't be hard)

XL is part of the Beggars group (along with 4AD, Mantra, Locked On, Rex Records, Wiija, Mo' Wax and Beggars Banquet itself). Beggars are still "independent". They at least consider themselves such even though they're heeeuge.

I love records, me. I genuinely fucking love music. I don't think the people at NME and major record labels do. Not the ones I've met anyway. Industry types don't have the hunger for music fans have. It's amusing watching their reactions to me change as my site grows. They used to treat me like a pesky kid and give me the brush-off. Now they come chasing after me and send me stuff, begging for features, making out they always supported the site. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Wed Oct 3 17:41:43 BST 2001:

>I love records, me. I genuinely fucking love music. I don't think the people at NME and major record labels do. Not the ones I've met anyway. Industry types don't have the hunger for music fans have.

This is why my brief dabble with working in the music industry ended with me not doing. I realised that the people in the music industry are passionate about being in the music industry. The music is less important, it's the whole culture of working in the music industry that they love. They may have once loved music, but years of free records and going to clubs and gigs that they weren't all that bothered about has killed it off. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Jessica' on Wed Oct 3 18:20:20 BST 2001:

>"Warp (for example) are no longer purely electronica (and the worse for it)."
>
>Don't you like Broadcast? I love 'em.

They're OK. I don't mind that first album, but they're a bit twee and her voice grates after a while. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Wed Oct 3 18:23:18 BST 2001:

>Don't you like Broadcast? I love 'em.

I'm sure they'd be great if I could hear them.
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Thu Oct 4 13:00:52 BST 2001:

>XL is part of the Beggars group (along with 4AD, Mantra, Locked On, Rex Records, Wiija, Mo' Wax and Beggars Banquet itself). Beggars are still "independent". They at least consider themselves such even though they're heeeuge.

Beggars is part of Warners. I'm pretty sure of that. Whoever, they're definitely NOT independent.

I spent last night in a huge room of record industry types all pressing palm. I got a small amount of pleasure out of referring to them all as "Bobbi Flekman" whenever introductions came round. It's a tiny thing, but fun. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Jon on Thu Oct 4 13:15:35 BST 2001:

Did any of them say: "Hi, I'm the guy who signed Then Jericho?" Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Thu Oct 4 18:40:00 BST 2001:

I thought the definition of independent was "independent from the big half-dozen multinationals". So any label not connected to BMG, EMI, Warner, Geffen, Sony, Polygram etc. could consider itself independent.

That still doesn't leave very many labels of any significant size that don't have any ties, even a distribution deal. Also, don't Warner own EMI now? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Interested Interloper' on Fri Oct 5 10:02:15 BST 2001:

Looks like good ol' Everett True is starting up a new mag. I was never really interested in many of the bands he waxed lyrical about, but that's hardly the point; like Allan Jones, he's a great editor, and someone who actually gives a fuck.

DECLARATION OF INTENT
(Careless Talk Costs Lives)

orS

HOW WE ARE GOING TO HELP YOU SAVE YOUR BUSINESS

1) The music press is in a dire state. While magazines aimed at an Oolder,
more passive¹ audience like MOJO and Uncut are still (more or less) flying
the flag for traditional music press ideals such as Ointelligent, soulful
and stylish¹ writing and design, there is a vast gap in the market. Melody
Maker and Select folded at the end of 2000, mainly because their companies
insisted on dumbing down their content for an audience that clearly didn¹t
like being patronised. NME and Q seem hell-bent on following the same route.
(We fully expect to see NME fold within a year, especially as its publishers
have no grasp of its natural audience.) Kerangg continues to appeal to the
metal kids, ably. The Wire is an esoteric law unto itself, but that¹s not
what we¹re discussing here. Dance and fashion lifestyle magazines aimed at a
younger, hipper crew ­ like the rather disappointing Sleaze Nation ­
continue to multiply. WHEN SELECT AND MM WENT DOWN, THEY TOOK 70,000
DISILLUSIONED READERS WITH THEM. Where have they gone? Nowhere. There¹s
nowhere for them to go.

2) Who is supporting the new, exciting bands that continue to spring up
across the land, media coverage or no media coverage? Where is your
label/artist able to put across their message? Is there a place you can even
advertise in that is suited to your music?

3) The media in the UK is ridiculously London-centric, thus cutting out
entire swathes of the population. It¹s also a clique, out of touch, old andS
you name it. Our central core has been at the heart of the music business
for years now, indeed some of us are infamous for it. We have never lost
sight of a few simple truths ­ the industry NEEDS new blood constantly, lest
its arteries become clogged and die. There is still nothing that compares to
the thrill of hearing someone new create some GREAT music. Nothing.

4) Our contributors are web kids, fanzine editors, established broadsheet
hacks, Australians, SerbiansS anyone we think has something vital to add to
the discourse. We have plenty of female contributors, for sure. Why would
you want to advertise with us? Why would you want to finance us? Because
we¹re bloody exciting that¹s why, and because we don¹t think there¹s
anything to be gained from giving lead reviews to Oartists¹ like Kylie
Minogue when they¹ve been covered 500 times already across the country.

5) Here¹s a list of what¹s in our first few issues. Some will change, others
won¹t.

MOGWAI
ELECTRELANE
BANNED RECORDS
THE VEGAS COUNTDOWN
LADYFEST
QUASI
DEF JUX
TECHNO-ANIMAL
HERBIE MANN
DIRTBOMBS
MEANWHILE BACK IN COMMUNIST RUSSIA
ROCK OF TRAVOLTA
APHEX TWIN
ONEIDA
CHICKS ON SPEED
BOBBY CONN
THE PATTERN
AEROGRAMME
THE PRODIGY
HOWE GELB
MERCURY REV
DIAMANDA GALAS
BRIGHT EYES
JAJAGUWAR
THE LEAF LABEL
HEARTLESS CREW
JAY-Z
LES SAVY FAV
SLIPKNOT
HARMONY KORINE
DANIELSON FAMILE
LAL
FUTURE PILOT AKA
ELENI MANDELL
SPIRITUALIZED
GRAND DRIVE
SLUMBER PARTY
DENISE JAMES
DANIEL JOHNSTON
INTERNATIONAL NOISE CONSPIRACY
MINUS
NOAM CHOMSKY


6) We encourage discourse. One regular feature will give bands an
opportunity to immediately answer back to criticism. In album reviews, we
have For and Against views. Musicians write for us, loads of the bloody
creatures. We have so many columnists, I can¹t even begin to tell youS all
with one fundamental aim. To put across our enthusiasm and love for the
music that moves us ­ to joy, and to despair.

7) Our photography and design will be absolutely second to none. No clumsy
cover lines! No crap head and shoulders live shots! What do you expect from
a magazine co-run by the finest rock photographer of the age, Steve Gullick?

8) Our rates are reasonable, and our expected print run for the first issue
is 20,000. We have a heavy subscriber base. We are sold in countries my mum
has never heard of. Don¹t worry: we expect to have overtaken the NME¹s
pitiful sales shortly. This is the most media-literate generation ever, plus
there¹s a whole section of society grown up ­ or too young to grow up ­ on
the music we all love. We know that Othe kids¹ want to be treated with
respect. We are the kids. (No not me, of courseS our contributors.)

9) Careless Talk Costs Sales, as all publications are finding out.

10) The fashion was for Big Brother, Celebrity Sleepover, and the crap media
pages in the Guardian. That fashion is about to change: partly because of
world events, and partly because it was a crap fashion. If you want to talk
demographics, we¹re talking everyone who saw OHigh Fidelity¹ and OAlmost
Famous¹. We¹re talking the massive rash of rock books. We¹re talking fans of
Belle & Sebastian, Eminem, Radiohead and Mogwai. We¹re talking Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By mrdiscopop on Fri Oct 5 10:42:28 BST 2001:

>Belle & Sebastian, Eminem, Radiohead and Mogwai. We¹re talking....


DON'T STOP THERE!!! What comes next??? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Stuart O' on Fri Oct 5 11:17:47 BST 2001:

http://www.nwlink.com/~erick/e_true/e_true.html

Warning: this page contains material that was printed in 1907. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Interested Interloper' on Fri Oct 5 11:30:55 BST 2001:

>>Belle & Sebastian, Eminem, Radiohead and Mogwai. We¹re talking....
>
>
>DON'T STOP THERE!!! What comes next???

Oops - too big for the form:

"We¹re talking fans of
Belle & Sebastian, Eminem, Radiohead and Mogwai. We¹re talking 16-25 year
olds ­ but any age below and over, because in this post-millennial world of
ours, everyone¹s a teenager, no one has grown up. We¹re talking an equal
split between male and female. We¹re talking big disposable incomes."



Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Morally Wrong' on Fri Oct 5 11:45:50 BST 2001:

Just wondering, where did this information come from?

Sounds great though, doesn't it? First time back on this forum in a month or so, and it's already given me a cuddly warm glow. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Fri Oct 5 13:21:15 BST 2001:

Radiohead and Mogwai. We¹re talking...

...patronising bollocks written by an arrogant fuckwit whose presence in Melody Maker was at least partially responsible for its accelerated demise?
Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Quincy' on Fri Oct 5 13:35:14 BST 2001:

Everett True. Fucking wanker.

"Ooh! look at me, look at me! I knew Kurt Cobain, did you know that? I'm on the cover of In Utero! Look! ME! ME! ME!" Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Fri Oct 5 15:23:00 BST 2001:

I tried this angle with my band's press agent, saying that True was the last man to be trusted with saving the UK music press, and it went down like syphillis.

The launch of Careless Talk is being greeted like a lifebelt being thrown to a drowning man by the press people who represent the bands we all like, apparently. The NME is not going to be there long, everyone in music PR knows it. They all know Everett and Stevie and the team behind this mag, so you'll (hopefully) find every band you like's press people talking very enthusiastically to Everett's mob.

That'll mean (again hopefully) interviews with people who were fed up being given the brush off at the NME and MM. The magazine might work because there ARE a lot of musicians out there desperate to talk to anyone who's actually enthusiastic about music.

I, personally, think ET's a bit of a divot, but bravo for getting off his arse and tapping a supply of / demand for information on new / exciting bands - something the NME lost interest in years ago. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'hemidemisemiderm' on Fri Oct 5 17:16:04 BST 2001:

quite. i can't really remember the worst of the true/mm era, but i remember i hated him enough to stop buying the rag. he probably said something derogatory about the boo radleys.

that said, it's got to be better than the nme, hasn't it? seems like his heart's in the right place, at least. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Fri Oct 5 19:58:29 BST 2001:

I'll certainly be interested in seeing this new magazine, but their claims for it are extraordinary and I just can't see how a group of people who think Stevie Chick is talented will be able to provide vibrant music coverage.

Btw, anyone remember Chick in Melody Maker? His writing occasionally dropped into an unintentionally hilarious Tim Westwood-style patois, so keen was he to demonstrate his love of all things hip-hop. Presumably this was beaten out of him when he defected to the NME, at which point he became the bland Stevie Chick we know and love. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Ben Sinister' on Sat Oct 6 15:47:29 BST 2001:

Egotistical and grating though Everett True may be (his "Live Through This" tome has to be read to be believed-he's the man who runs England, you know. Courtnet "Entirely Sane And Not At All Attention Seeking" Love said so), you can't deny his sincere compassion and enthusiasm for (in most cases, pretty darned good)music. Or the fact that he looks like Jim Broadbent. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Sun Oct 7 17:06:50 BST 2001:

>I tried this angle with my band's press agent

out of interest Unruly Butler, what band are you in? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Sun Oct 7 17:14:00 BST 2001:

Candidate. We did an album and three eps last year, and are just about to put out another ep in November and a new album in January of which I'm really, stupidly proud. Got some nice press last time round and shifted a few thousand copies - which is pretty good in indie circles. Be nice to repeat the trick... Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Golly Blenkinsop on Sun Oct 7 18:01:49 BST 2001:

make sure Studybees is on your press list, innit. All for supporting the smaller band. We're doing a minisite on the indie label Moshi Moshi soon.

Cripes, I'm interviewing Mark E Smith tomorrow. Must go and think of more questions. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Chet Morton' on Sun Oct 7 19:27:55 BST 2001:

>Candidate. We did an album and three eps last year, and are just about to put out another ep in November

I will endeavour to track down some of the said ep's and have a listen.

Re: the new ET-founded music mag - forgive me if I missed this, but when is the first issue due out? Is it out already? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'rob jones' on Sun Oct 7 19:46:41 BST 2001:

I love Candidate, I do. When Candidate were on Session Unsigned, I loved them so much that I wrote 'Candidate' on my hand. Have I done this story already? Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By Unruly Butler on Mon Oct 8 09:01:46 BST 2001:

Yes, but it was a long time ago and I just woke up in a foul mood, so thanks for telling it again. It's warmed the cockles. Subject: Re: NME disappearing up its own PR
Posted By 'Rich' on Mon Oct 8 13:16:47 BST 2001:

>Candidate. We did an album and three eps last year, and are just about to put out another ep in November and a new album in January of which I'm really, stupidly proud. Got some nice press last time round and shifted a few thousand copies - which is pretty good in indie circles. Be nice to repeat the trick...

is that the candidate that did 'the leader' or whatever its called? if so, good work. i brought that after hearing it on alternative nation on mtv. very neil innes in the chorus i thought. what do you do in the band?